WitnessOfWonders

I saw a video that mentioned that 60% of the viewers for "The MarvelS" were male and now I read that 45% of the audience for the opening weekend were male over 25yo and only 22% were women. I'm not suggesting that a female lead superhero movie is just made for a female audience but I still think that it was targeted more at women than the usual Marvel movie. If not even women do care for these three girls, something went terribly wrong. Or to be frank: Know your target audience.

It's almost funny (I would laugh if I didn't care so much about Brie, Iman and therefor this movie) how many reasons for the failure of "The Marvels" there are. It's not one single reason or three. It's such a long list that you probably rarely see with another movie.

- Three women superheroes in a male dominated franchise
- Captain Marvel herself wasn't super popular or as popular as other Marvel heroes
- Brie Larson gets a certain kind of hate / Some viewers didn't like her approach at a stoic Captain Marvel
- Renaming the movie from "~Captain Marvel: The Marvels" to just "The MarvelS"
- They added two new characters and don't really or not introduce them in the movie
- It would be better to have watched some other shows to get into the movie
- There has been almost no promotion due to TWO strikes
- There were additional shoots
- The movie got postponed 4 times. Initial release was early July 2022 and the last one was end of July 2023 - it got released on November 8th/10th.
- The script wasn't great or even really good. Speaking from a neutral POV. The movie can still be fun but it has to draw in a huge audience.
- Because it costs so unbelievably much. It's among the most expensive movies made since the year 2000. Easily in the top 50 most expensive movies since the year 2000.
- Then you have the push for diversity. Doesn't fly with all the potential viewers
- Negative feedback even before the movie was released
- Going to the movies gets more and more expensive
- People are tired of Marvel movies
- Was released not 4 but 4.5 years(!) after the release of "Captain Marvel".

So what could possibly go wrong? I watched it twice and I'm not even the target audience. Just in it for the Brie and proudly so. I don't mind the things certain people could have problems with as long as I get an entertaining movie. But to get back $250m + marketing (but I don't believe that this movie needed $150m for marketing because there was little promotion) is almost impossible considering everything that went not so well or even wrong for the movie...

J-LawForever

All true points there. I mean it took The MCU over 10 years to have its first female solo film. Everything else was male fronted with a female as the co-lead if not the mere love interest.

Anything I saw was people said the character of Captain Marvel wasn't sexy enough, and it needed sex appeal for the men. Which is a BS thing to say. I am a man by the way. So I don't think or feel that way. A woman can be strong and confident without dressing a certain way. First she was a air pilot and second she combat fighter. What purpose would her dressing sexy accomplish besides titillating guys in the audience.

Renaming it to The Marvels honestly feel it hurt it. Should have called it Captain Marvel: The Inilator or whatever was called by the Kree. The Marvels made it generic or sound like it was a sequel to Ms. Marvel. Even though I loved the show.

Also adding 2 characters from a D+ show many probably didn't watch did it no favors

Covid with multiple release date changes were another. People can't keep track if they keep moving around.

No actor promotion was another big hit.

Couldn't be more true about the diversity issue. So many white men get upset over this whenever a movie starring a non white man is announced or made. I'm a white straight male. So I feel it's good to see people of color as well as females on screen.

I don't know about being sick of Marvel. GOTG3 Made close to $850 million dollars.

Covid did a number on the MCU. Causing multiple setbacks and delays over the years. Bu yeah. Sure 4 and a half year later didn't help. Even if for a few cameos in Shang Chi and Ms. Marvel.

I just said that for marketing. They did a piss job at marketing this film. So wouldn't be surprised if they didn't spend too much.

In the end it was just too much to overcome with all the things mentioned

Jen's Herald

i personally liked her approach as a stoic badass superhero in the first film. i still don't understand how all these whiny hater dudes on youtube hate a stoic female superhero, when in fact they are drowning in stoic male heroes types and love them for it. hypocrisy much? smh.

i loved that Carol was a US Air Force pilot, and a damn good one, loved that her callsign Avenger became the namesake for the later Avengers Initiative. i am still a huge fan of the first film.

i haven't seen Marvels yet, but seeing all the hate out there in sexist youtuber haterville, i am sad. given all the delays, rewrites, reshoots, etc tc etc, perhaps they should've just gone straight to Binary.

i will be one of the ones watching it this weekend.

WitnessOfWonders

I just joined the MCU this year, so I don't know these things but obviously it makes 100% sense. The first three Marvel superheroes were Iron Man, Thor, Captain America.

I rememeber reading or hearding somewhere that Brie didn't want to be dressed sexy. You don't have to think twice how Team Marvel would dress her up if she didn't say anything against it. The superhero outfit of Wonder Woman is relatively revealing, while our Captain only shows as little skin as possible. Even when you think about "The Marvels". Yes, Brie wears a dress and this white muscle shirt thingy but to me it wasn't like "wow, how sexy is that" It didn't distract me from the story. If Carol Danvers had been wearing very revealing clothes, I wouldn't have liked that. Stop this sexist BS. Unfortunately not all actresses will be able to say no to such a sexist treatment.

The Annihilator. That part got a bit annoying because evertime Carol met Dar-Benn or some of her teams, they called her "Annihilator" and Carol replied at some point "Annihilator. I don't like that name." Rightfully so! Why changing the name? Don't make things harder for the audience. Naming the movie after the titular character doesn't take anything away from the other two new characters. "Captain Marvel: The Marvels". Done. Yes, "The Marvels" sounds cool but it's also a bit confusing because of Marvel.

I didn't care. I liked the movie despite some weaknesses. I liked Kamala Khan a lot and Teyonah Parris as Monica Rambeau was also a nice addition. She didn't get too much attention but it was fine. The main-cast was VERY non-white. Kamala's family, Dar-Benn (Zawe Ashton) and also Park Seo-Joon plus of course Samuel L. Jackson. Where were the white people? A movie is good when it is well written. An all-white movie isn't automatically good. I liked that it was of all people a Pakistani-American girl becoming Kamala Khan. That's refreshing honestly. Had it been another white girl, it wouldn't have had such a cool, interesting background.

One interesting fact I can add is this. I watched a video where a movie nerd who knows a lot about movies complained about modern trailers. They are always the same, the same sounds and look and they use weird pop music or renditions of pop songs. By the way, before I forget:

I noticed this at some point but forgot about it. This was ingenious. Finding a song that fits the intergalatic theme of the movie and that starts with that line.

Back to the trailer topic. The guy pointed out that there were like in total 22 or so trailer, previews, short scenes etc. for "The Marvels". So he at least argued that you could have seen almost the entire movie already. That's why I stayed away from watching trailers besides the main trailers. Also these trailers differed in tone.

WitnessOfWonders

It is easy to believe that Carol doesn't show emotions the entire movie. But when I revisited "Captain Marvel", I paid attention to exactly how Brie played her characters. And she got to show a lot of emotions, with Nick, with the Rambeaus. Also it makes sense that Carol is very stoic. She has had traumatic experiences and is fighting aliens.


Some people said that "Captain Marvel" was an add for the US army. I'm not an American, so it didn't work for me. Still I liked it and also that Brie was able to fly in such a plane. A cool gimmick that I didn't get at first was that the Kree named her "Vers" because they only found a short piece of her tag that says [Carol Dan-]vers". This thing went over my head for a long time also because her name is pronunced Veers rather then Dan-Vers. Cap Marvel went from a disappointing 4 to a strong 7.5/10 for me. For a superhero movie that is really good. It took me some time but then I could appreciate the movie itself and also Brie's acting, I couldn't afford to pay to much attention to that when I was trying to follow the plot.

Better late than never. I will try to watch it a 3rd time. Now I have to watch it dubbed and I don't like that in general but hearing a different voice for Brie is not acceptable.

J-LawForever

It's easy for a male character to be one thing. Than a female does the same and gets critiqued for it. Tony Stark is cool, **** and arrogant. People praise him. Carol does the same and she's called a cold B word.

Plus throughout most of the first. She doesn't know who she is. So she has no emotions for the most part. Aside from a snarky joke here and there.

Jen's Herald

Cap Marvel was not an advert or recruiting tool for the US Air Force (which has nothing to do with the US Army, which is a completely different branch of the US Armed Forces) but rather was to show the advancement of women in uniform, particularly as pilots and unit leaders which were not available to women previous to 1989. the US military has been all volunteer since 1981, and women's roles have increased exponentially since the 90s. her callsign Avenger being the namesake for the Avengers, also is a cinematic salute to women in uniform and defense of their country.

WitnessOfWonders

Thanks for clearing that up! That sounds 100x better than Brie being part of military propaganda. The first CM is set in the 1990s, mid 1990s like 1994 or 1995. So am I correct in thinking that Carol Danvers (and Maria Rambeau) was among the first US Air Force women?

J-LawForever

Yeah I think they were among the first. .

Usually if people don't like something. They find something negative to attach to it.

Firecrest

Love all the pics!

WitnessOfWonders

Yesterday I finally managed to watch "The Marvels" for the 3rd time after almost a month since my last viewing. Why did it take me so long? Because going to the movies is time consuming, it takes me just as long to go there and back home as the movie's length. It is a rather expensive pleasure but I got the entire room for myself! I'm not sure if I will watch it one more time but it will be played at least one more week. I feel bad for cinemas because they have to show movies for a certain period of time. But who goes to the movies during the week during winter for a not well regarded Marvel movie? So I guess there will be showings without a single viewer.

Wasn't even bad to watch it dubbed, German dubs usually are of high quality. I think this is a movie that can grow on you. It was the same with "Captain Marvel" for me. I still was having a blast watching Iman Vellani's Kamala Khan aka Ms. Marvel fangirling for a good amount of scenes. That is one of the highlights of the movie and I'm honestly sad that their interaction will not be repeated (because now they have met and I somehow doubt they will be in another movie together). Brie shows a lot of emotions (compared to her solo movie) in the movie and it's great to see her work with two other superheroes. It's still a fun space road trip. The action scenes were cool and unique and watching our beloved Queen Brie being badass on screen or flying through space is just AMAZING!

A good movie is good when I enjoy the characters, their interactions and there are fun and emotional moments. And if you go along with the flow and enjoy the characters, their interactions, the emotions they show, the fun they having, the action, the vastness of space, there is a lot of good things to discover! Even their visit on this one planet I liked a lot better than when I first saw it! Yes, the movie could have been better but despite all the difficulties surrounding the production, it managed to make $200m.! Yeah, you can scream "that are the worst numbers for a Marvel movie EVAAAAAA" all day long. I don't believe it. Also a lot of people will stream it when it gets released soon I'm sure and also I got the feeling that a lot of people think it's a fun entertaining movie.

I noticed how good the opening theme by Laura Karman is (or however you would call it) is!



I got a question for you Marvel fans: Is the beautiful string section starting at ~00:36 a new composition or is it the theme of Marvel comics in general?

Also the design of the end credits is beautiful. In general, I like the space theme a lot.

J-LawForever

My final total will be 9. Yesterday was the last day at my theater.

Now to just wait for the home release. Which should be January or February for the US markets.

I still say it was released at the worst time. Should have bumped it to February. As the strikes would have been over and given it a semi fighting chance. But those youtube chuds just took advantage of it and kept piling onto it. With people sadly believing everything they sad

Firecrest

Love the amazing video!

WitnessOfWonders

Wow! You should rename yourself to B-LarForever. As mentioned, "The Marvels" will be shown at least until next Thursday, which is madness to be honest. As I said, there will be a lot of completely empty showings.

I got some questions: Do you watch other movies that often? I have never watched a movie twice in cinema before this year. Did you like "The Marvels" more the more you watched it or did your perception change? Thanks for supporting Brie but even if you would have watched it 100 times, it wouldn't make a difference...

I just saw that "Elemental" got added to Disney+. It was released in theatres in June and available for streaming in September. Not a lot of time between these two dates...

I admit that I was desperately waiting to see it, so I was happy when it got released in November. But looking back, you're absolutely right. Why not wait a couple of months? I'm not sure if it is just me but during Winter (I know, November isn't winter yet but it's similar), when it gets dark early and it is cold, I cannot even write my bike to see the movie. And I am less motivated to go outside.

J-LawForever

Lol I guess I should. I still enjoyed it upon each rewatch.

Ive seen various other movies over the years. Saw Barbie 5 times in theaters and on 4k a few other times too.

Thats usually how it is for streaming services like D+. 3 months from theaters to streaming. Even less when it hits PVOD.

Yeah here in the US it gets dark about 5pm. So I know what yiu mean. I ride the bus. So I have to wait at the bus stop in the cold. Luckily there are lights at the stops.