Lauren Helen Graham

We know that Red knew Sam... Because it was Red's and Katarina's decision to bring Liz to him. At least that was what Katarina said. I don't want to doubt everything on the show honestly.

I guess Liz did have problems adjusting and to protect her, they had to erase her memories. I think that's when Katarina is dead already because I believe it's really been all Red... She had to forget about her mother and she had to forget about what happened that night.

Miranda

So you think the manipulation happened a little while after the fire?

nsuzd

I presume there was at least two memory manipulations: after the fire and second one in the end of Season 2 when we saw the Fulcrum's line and Tom Connoly murder.
After Liz began to recall something maybe Red had to do it again to fix the result of first brainwash?!

Fangirl49

I agree with your time line.

Miranda

I agree with that. I think it happened the second one happened in S2 as well cause Dr. Krilov told Liz that it happened two years ago but I am still wondering when exactly it happened.

Lauren Helen Graham

I as well think there really were two manipulations. The first not long after the fire, not long after she was brought to Sam, yes She was manipulated to forget her real name (which for sure was necessary because how else would they secure her safety) and about the night of the fire. Maybe even more that we don't know about

And yes, I think there was a second one but I'm still sure that it was NOT Red. He didn't do it because if it was him, he would have admitted it. When he was confronted about anything by Liz, he had always told her the truth. And he would have this time as well. I believe him.

Besides, Krilov never mentions Red's name. NEVER! It's pure speculation to say it's been him. An acquaintance could be almost everybody. And it very well could have been Kaplan because Krilov said 'An acquaintance of ours'. So they at least need to know them both... Of course, it could be somebody else who has ties to him as well that we don't know about.

Miranda

I could not agree with you more Kris! I really believe that there were two as well but that Red had nothing to do with the second one cause if he would have, he would have told her just like you said.

I wonder if Kaplan told Krilov to tell Liz that Red was behind it.

Lauren Helen Graham

Maybe it's another player that we don't even think about... What if it somehow was Tom? You recall that he said he knows more about Red than she gives him credit about. So what if it was him? How would he know about Krilov though?

Fangirl49

Tom is number 7 on the list. He has resources and access to criminals. He had access to Liz too on the boat. Wouldn't that be a twist.

nsuzd

Once again:
Krilov said Liz has "uncovered certain truth about Raymond Reddington. And he couldn't have that".
And this can't be Kate because in the beginning of this episode they'd meet for the first time. Krilov didn't know who she is and Kate said she is "a friend of a friend".

And even if Red don't lie to Liz he never told her the whole truth - only some parts of the truth that guide her to the wrong conclusions. Always.
Red said he hired Krilov only once. Maybe second time he hired somebody to hired Krilov?...


I just found the strange version in the Net:
When in the end of season Tom got the suitcase with bones he talking on phone with Liz...
Kate managed to tell Liz where the suitcase is and Liz send Tom to find it.

Miranda

You know, that actually could have happened. I can see Kate telling Liz about the suitcase but why would Liz sent Tom to find it and not go look for it herself?

Lauren Helen Graham

Yes, he said that. But he never saw Red or talked to him... The acquaintance did and who knows who he/she was or what he/she told Krilov It could have been everybody. Really. The Cabal, Red, Kaplan, Dembe, Tom or whoever else.

It's a possibility with Liz But I somehow doubt this as well because we got this deleted scene where Liz tells Kate that she'll never side with her and everything. I have to have a look if I can find it somewhere. I doubt that Kate managed to tell her or told her in general.

ETA - I really think as well that Liz could have been the one that called Tom... If he's on his way home, I really believe it's been her. Because he tells the caller that he's on his way Wow, that would be a change of plans. This would mean that Liz was her trusted associate that would be alerted as soon as Kaplan is dead.

Miranda

It would be big if Liz was calling Tom. She could have of course without knowing where he was or what he had with him (the bones)

I think Mr. Kaplan is going to haunt us in S5.

Lauren Helen Graham

I think at least in the beginning of season five... I doubt it will be for long. Don't ask me why I think so

But man, wouldn't it be really crazy if Liz was contacted? When she stepped out of the car, I thought she made a decision. She for sure has but still she wants to know what happened and I really believe that Kaplan would at least have given her some of it.

Miranda

But if Kaplan told Liz something, would it have been the truth? We don't know that. At that point, I think Kaplan would have told Liz anything to get her away from Red.