NotDoneAbusingYou

I think she started to be nicer even before the wedding. Slowly. Little things. It was really there all.along 8f y9 look at it. I think the Gray fans just couldn't see past her trying to keep them apart. I saw it right from the start.

kerbear28

Well, even as a Frary fan, I have loved Catherine (or loved to hate her ) since the pilot. I always knew she was more complicated than just the "big bad." Even when she was hurting Mary and keeping Frary apart, I understood that it was all out of fear of losing her son and her fierce loyalty to France and the Valois line. It was clear that didn't want to do those terrible things. In the pilot, before Catherine learns of the prophecy, she is practically giddy with the prospect of her son actually finding LOVE in his arranged marriage. There is nothing that Catherine wants more for Francis than for him to find his equal and to be happy. But she also needs to keep him ALIVE. When Catherine protected Mary and her ladies during Count Vincent's siege of the castle in 1x07...at great risk to herself... she showed her true colors. And then the Frary wedding happened, and it just confirmed what many of us Frary fans had suspected from the beginning: Cat was the #1 Frary Shipper. And she cared for Mary like a daughter. Sure, Mary and Catherine have had their ups and downs since then, and they have both done awful things... but I have never stopped rooting for them both, especially when they are working together.

NotDoneAbusingYou

I wasn't referring to all Frary fans, just a lot of them. I've heard so many call her awful things and say she is an evil bitch...even now

kerbear28

Oh, I know you weren't referring to all of Frary fans. I guess I have not been plugged in with all of the Frary fans on social media (twitter, facebook, tumblr) since the show started. All I know is that many of the Frary fans I met here on are mature enough to see Catherine for who she is and appreciate her - even love her. I understand that's not always the case in other places on the internet.

De Medici Queen

I guess that A LOTTT of Reign fans and Frary fans are teens like I met soo many people on instagram with Reign accounts and they are like.. 12-13.. I guess you are referring to those fans Amanda and sadly it's true, they don't understand Catherine's acts but people here on actually always loved and respected her. I remember after S1 when I first come here right after season finale they were all liking her character

NotDoneAbusingYou

Oh I know that. We all are a bit more grown up around here. My point was only that she was presented as the villain, but she never felt that way to me. Not even at her worst. Even then at mist she was an antagonist.

De Medici Queen

Well she had some moments when even I thought "noo Catherine don't"

ParkDundee

My point wasn't so much that Catherine was a villain in Season 1, but that largely due to her actions (sometimes justified, sometimes not imo), we didn't get many happy Frary scenes.

I guess it has to do with still feeling bitter about there not being more scenes for Frary. From what I've read, Mary and Francis actually had more time to enjoy their love for each other before he died.

It's hard to judge the 16th Century Queen Catherine, she had a lot on her plate in Season 1. The only two acts that I consider to be "wrong" were the murder of the innocent Scotts and prostitutes and her attempt to murder Mary and Bash.

NotDoneAbusingYou

Well murdering the Scotts she did to avoid a war. She didn't really have a choice and she hated it.

Trying to kill Bash was wrong, but trying to kill Mary was a desperate last ditch effort, again, not something she wanted to do.

The only thing Catherine has ever done that bothered me was trying to have Mary raped in the first episode, but I don't really hold it over the character too much, because pilot episodes many times are far different from the rest of the series. They change things and even change actors sometimes. I never count the pilots in most shows.

Anyway, I'm long overdue to post my art: (posted in spoiler tags because some of them are really huge for some reason)



Also, there was a few things I'm surprised no one is talking about.

The scene right before the whipping scene Mary says "Queens aren't so easily undone, you taught me that." I was so happy that she said that. It's the first time they have verbally acknowledged that Catherine has actually been teaching Mary all this time, that she has been learning lessons even when they are at odds. It's the essence of their relationship.

Also, just after that, when Catherine says "right now I am fighting for you" She could possibly be executed for this and she is more worried about Mary. That right there is proof positive that Mary is like one of her own children. Her life means more than her own.

kerbear28

Amazing arts, as always, Amanda.

Beautifully said. Both of those quotes are so poignant and emblematic of their relationship. Future thread titles?

De Medici Queen

Future thread titles

Frary had enough screentime before he died, I don't think Catherine's character has anything to do with them not having enough sweet scenes I don't see it how


I guess the thing I disliked was that she fed Narcisse his hourse, that was something I blame her for and don't think it was correct just because she found out he was after Lola.


Yesss, Amanda. Now that you mention that I remember the quotes, great Matherine moments Mary indeed has learned so much from Catherine over the years

NotDoneAbusingYou

Well, there was nothing wrong with what she did to Narcisse actually, I hated that only because it was out of character, not because he didn't deserve it. (Also I felt bad for the horse)

De Medici Queen

I felt bad for the horse and it was out of character for her to being jealous that much. Even with Henry she could control it. And he indeed deserved it but she could have done better than killing the animal

NotDoneAbusingYou

Yes I know. I'm just saying she didn't really do anything wrong, just not like her and a little creepy. But I guess that's why she said she didn't like the way he made her feel.

Look, awful gifs...

kerbear28

Great gifs, Amanda. That scene was so amazing.

Well, for Frary fans, I don't think the screentime we got will ever be enough. Especially when they were both so miserable for the majority of last season. And even the beauty in the first episodes of Season 3 can't make up for that. We will always want MORE happy Frary. But, I agree that Catherine is not responsible for that. Sure, she was an obstacle to them in Season 1 and tried to separate them, but...I blame Nostradamus' prophecy for that, not Catherine.

I felt really bad for the horse, too. I agree that Narcisse may have deserved it, but it was very disturbing. Like you said, it was very out of character for Catherine to act so jealous and...desperate. She had every right to want revenge...but this was not smart or calculating, it was purely an emotional response.

I completely understand what Catherine meant when she said she didn't like how vulnerable Narcisse made her feel.