Maybe spoilers. I didn't use spoilers tag because the episode was aired
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'Suits' postmortem: Inside Harvey and Donna's 'Other Time'
by Mandi Bierly on Aug 20, 2013 at 11:34PM
Spoiler alert! If you haven’t watched this week’s episode of Suits, which flashed back 10 years to “the other time,” stop reading now. Creator Aaron Korsh and Sarah Rafferty (Donna) phoned EW separately to break down the episode fans have been waiting for…
What we learned: Ten years ago in the DA’s office, Harvey (Gabriel Macht) was a flirt and wanted to start a celebratory tradition with Donna that involved an act with whipped cream that a gentleman would not dare speak. (So he drew her a picture.) She informed him she doesn’t sleep with coworkers. A misfiled piece of evidence was brought to Harvey’s attention, and when he took it to DA Cameron Dennis (Gary Cole), he told him to rebury it. Harvey considered doing it this one time, but Donna talked him out of it, knowing that Dennis would ask Harvey to do it again after having found other cases he’d fudged. Harvey ultimately resigned, and that’s when he showed up at Donna’s door because her rule no longer applied. She told him she’d quit, too, and Harvey said he couldn’t get her another job. Not a problem: Donna already had multiple offers. She also had a can of whipped cream in her hand. He stepped inside.
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: When was it decided they actually slept together during the other time? I’m guessing most fans weren’t expecting that.
Sarah Rafferty: I had thought a lot about what this energy was between Donna and Harvey, and I stick to it that in the present, in the whole time we’ve known Donna, Donna has not been pining for Harvey in any way. That’s what she believes. That’s what she tells herself. That’s what her experience is. But I think subconsciously, people are complicated. When it came up in season 2, when she referred to “the other time,” we definitely had a discussion about what that meant. It wasn’t decided that they had necessarily done that, but that there had been some romantic energy in their past.
Aaron Korsh: What’s funny is, some people always anticipated it, some people didn’t. I will say it was not my idea. In my mind, the other time referred to maybe they started to fool around and derailed it in the middle because their heads got the better of their desires. But the writers’ room collectively came up with that idea, and when they pitched it to me, I was like, Whoa. I thought it was awesome. I’m like, “Let’s do it.” We just went for it.
The door closed as Harvey leaned in, so we didn’t really even see them kiss. Was more filmed?
Rafferty: [Laughs] No, we did not film anymore. No more was filmed.
I love that this makes you giggle. Is that because you and Gabriel are such good friends in real life?
Rafferty: [Still laughing] Yes. We close the door and we start laughing hysterically — that’s what’s happening on the other side. I think we gave each other the goofiest hug and fell down on the floor. I mean, not exactly that. We probably punched each other. I kneed him in the balls, and he cried. No. [Still laughing]
That would’ve been great for the gag reel!
Rafferty: We should have had some B-roll going getting that other angle. Somebody should have been on their iPhone getting the other side.
Was it purposeful not to show a kiss? It gives fans something to still look forward to, should it ever happen in present day. Korsh: That is a good question. The truth is, I don’t remember our rationale, but that sounds like a good reason. [Laughs] I think we just thought we weren’t going to dwell on that story point, and actually, maybe it was a subconscious thing, because I do think if it were to ever happen in present day, it would make it more impactful. Though I’m not gonna sit here and guarantee that it will ever happen in the present day.
Harvey went to see Jessica and rejoined her at the law firm, which she and Daniel Hardman had just taken over. He insisted upon having his own assistant, and Jessica said that person’s salary would have to come out of his own pocket. Harvey then met Donna at a diner and told her that he didn’t want to lose her — professionally. He didn’t want to know what kind of lawyer he’d be without her. She agreed to work with him, on the condition they never speak of “the other time” and that it never happen again.
What was Donna thinking when Harvey said he didn’t want to lose her? Was she thinking he meant personally?
Rafferty: It’s like the next day or something — it’s too soon after that event for her to be expecting him to say, “I’m in love with you” or “I want to marry you.” They were having fun. It’s light.
Korsh: I think they were just two young people who were flirting with each other and liked each other, and Donna was like, “I’m not gonna sleep with someone I work with and certainly not my boss.” And then they find themselves in the situation where they’re no longer working together, and they’re like, “let’s just do this.” I think Donna, to a small degree, was affected by that night a little bit more than Harvey was. It made her a little more willing to at least entertain the notion of a relationship with Harvey.
That scene had to accomplish so much in that we had to believe that Harvey really didn’t know he was going to offer her a job when he slept with her and that they really could put it out of their minds and continue a professional relationship.
Korsh: It’s after he slept with her that he realized holy s—, I don’t want to take another job at another firm without her. She’s my conscience, she’s my everything professionally. And that’s when he has the conversation with Jessica. When he goes to the diner, to me, he kinda did a calculation of, s—, I shouldn’t have slept with her, because I violated her code, but I didn’t know I was gonna have this change of heart. He’s going in there like, “I’m so sorry that we slept together because I can’t lose you professionally, and I messed up.” To me, her feelings are a little bit more confused because partially, she’s like, “You shouldn’t have slept with me if you knew you were gonna do this,” and she needs assurance that he didn’t. And also, I think, there’s a little bit in there of like, “Why don’t you want me in a different way” and not just this. She gets over that quickly and realizes this is what their relationship is destined to be, and she does want to work with him, and she does feel a connection with him, and she chooses to move on.
Rafferty: I thought that scene was really beautiful because in its own way, he’s proposing something to her about their future. It had all that in it: How they were gonna move forward through their lives, and she sets a very clear boundary. I think Donna has a really strong, really smart reason for not letting that boundary be crossed in her personal and professional life. I think she knows that it can mess everything up, both ways — whether it’s the professional will mess up the personal or the personal will mess up the professional. In the same way we know Harvey’s mother cheating on his father has really affected Harvey’s level of trust for the women in his life, I was thinking why is this rule so important to Donna? There must be a reason in her past, before Harvey. [Believing they can move on] is everything. Donna’s really human, she just needs to be needed. We all want to feel connected and important and valued and that we’re contributing. I love that she was kind of take it or leave it about that with him. Either you’re gonna go this way, or you’re gonna go that way, and I’m only sticking around if you’re going that way, and I’m fine either way because I’ve got three other offers, and I’ve got an incredible sense of self-esteem and I’m not gonna suffer fools. And she’s a straight shooter. The writers did a beautiful job setting up why they are the way they are with each other, why they have such a symbiotic relationship.
Donna still has no idea that her salary came out of his pocket?
Korsh: Correct. She has no idea. And over the years, her salary stopped coming out of his pocket.
Harvey grabbed a can opener from a waitress and Donna came up with a ritual to replace the whipped cream — which we still haven’t seen. Was it decided off-camera what it was?
Rafferty: The exact ritual that occurs with the can opener we haven’t discussed. We don’t know what it is. It’s kinda just more fun not knowing what it is. I’ve personally made up something stupid up in my head, so that it’s specific to me. But life imitating art, it’s so stupid that I won’t share it just like Harvey and Donna’s ritual is so stupid they won’t share it.
In present day, Harvey showed up at that same diner and found Donna drinking coffee. He finally admitted that it bothers him that she is with Stephen. He was interrupted when he continued on to say that doesn’t mean that…
What was Harvey going to say?
Korsh: We talked about that scene a lot. What was interesting was that it basically means that he has feelings regarding Donna. It doesn’t mean that he wants a relationship with Donna. It might mean that deep down inside, it might not. I would say probably not at this point and maybe someday, maybe not. But just because you don’t want a relationship with someone doesn’t mean you want them having a relationship with someone else. And I think he’s admitting to her that he has feelings surrounding her and that it does bother him. It’s not like she’s dying for him to have that, but I think she knows that he does and feels satisfied that he’s willing to admit that.
Rafferty: It’s just like, “Good, can we just get over the bulls— and say it like it is.” She also knows that it’s a big step for Harvey as a person to admit any vulnerability. That’s a step for him that she wants him to take as his friend because she wants him to move on and have a relationship with woman. She knows that he needs to open up, and be more present, and grow emotionally, and to have the courage to accept all that. I think the reason she’s teary when she says, “Because I have to live my life” is because what she wants from her life may be coming up for her in that moment, and she’s looking at her friend and just being really honest. Stephen brought up in last week’s episode that he’s feeling more [toward Donna], and because he brought that up, she realized that she was open to that idea of potentially taking their relationship to the next level.
Moving on to Mike: His flashback revealed that he lost $1,000 of Trevor’s drug money to cheating frat boys at a party. Trevor suggested Mike let him sell the answers to a test for a grand, he did it, and they paid off Omar, the Wire-obsessed dealer. But Trevor got nabbed for selling the exam. Mike explained to Grammy that Trevor wouldn’t turn on him to save himself from being expelled, but Mike also said that he felt guilty and thought the college couldn’t hurt him because Harvard had already accepted him as an undergrad transfer. Mike confessed, the school official revealed that the test was sold to his daughter and that his last act before he was fired was going to be expelling Mike and phoning Harvard, which rescinded its offer.
The return of Trevor…
Korsh: Trevor is not a beloved character for the fans of Suits, and the more we go into the past, the more you understand why Mike put up with Trevor’s nonsense in the first place. Grammy talks about how they’ve known each other since they were little kids, and how Trevor cried [when Mike's parents died until Trevor's parents at least offered to let Mike move in with them], and how he may not be the same kid but that kid is in there — which is nice. I also liked that Mike and Trevor will each stand up for each other. Like Mike will go over to Omar’s with Trevor, and when Mike is holding weed on the way out, Trevor says quietly, “If they catch us, that’s mine.” Trevor has a chance to throw Mike under the bus with the test thing and does not do it. Trevor makes two decisions that he is willing to sacrifice his own good fortune for Mike in this episode. In addition to just showing them having a fun, good time with each other, we just wanted to see that side more.
In present day, when it looked as though Harvey would win the Ava Hessington case, he told Jessica about his deal with Darby to take over the firm after that victory — and also that he no longer wants to do that. Remembering how he chose her over Cameron Dennis before made him want to work with her again.
Can Jessica forgive Harvey?
Korsh: That obviously is gonna have a ripple effect with Harvey and Jessica, and Jessica and Darby, and Harvey and Darby. It will take a little bit for them to work through it, as it always does. At the beginning of the year, we weren’t sure where we were gonna go — how this attempted coup was gonna end. When Jessica put his name on the door, it felt to me like I don’t want him to continue to pursue this. That kinda happened in the course of writing the flashback episode. I was like, “I don’t want him to keep going after her!”
Cameron Dennis dropped the bomb that Stephen led him to the witness that he was originally bluffing about having had. Stephen wasn’t trying to screw Harvey, right?
Korsh: We answer very quickly what happened in the next episode. But the truth of the matter is, Stephen isn’t trying to tank the case. The idea is Harvey knows Cameron so well that Harvey knows Cameron is bluffing about having a witness, and all we have to do is leave well enough alone and we’ll win. Stephen doesn’t know that. So Stephen really thinks Cameron might have him, and he’s trying to win the case.
'Suits' Creator Breaks Down Flashback Episode's Biggest Moments
8:00 PM PDT 8/20/2013 by Philiana Ng
Executive producer Aaron Korsh hints to THR that there are "ramifications" following Harvey and Jessica's fallout.
Are Harvey and Jessica done? Is Donna ready to move on with Stephen? Will Pearson Darby Specter stay afloat? Will Rachel end up attending Stanford law school? How many more names will the law firm take on before the end of the season?
Suits creator/executive producer Aaron Korsh breaks down the flashback episode, including the introduction of the whipped cream ritual, what did (or didn't) happen between Harvey and Donna behind closed doors and the forthcoming Harvey vs. Jessica battle.
The Hollywood Reporter: We finally met Harvey’s dad, Gordon Specter (James McCaffrey). How much thought was given to how he'd be introduced?
Aaron Korsh: We wanted to meet [Harvey's] dad, see what his dad was like and see what their relationship was like. Harvey’s relationship with Cameron [Dennis, played by Gary Cole,] mirrors Harvey’s relationship with Mike. Harvey is a little more Mike-like with the high-fives. With his father, his father is sarcastic, he can give him ****. When we first meet his dad, Harvey says, “I thought this was girls softball,” and his father says, “It is now.” We see where Harvey’s sarcasm and wit comes from, and his world view comes from his dad. We wanted to touch on his past with his mom and his dad is explaining his relationship with his mom and how he was warned about [her infidelity].
THR: How likely is it that we may meet Harvey’s brother or mother? Are you open to introducing them in the future?
Korsh: Absolutely! We’ve mentioned his brother several times. We’ve mentioned his mother several times. So, if or when they show up, you don’t feel like we made up those characters out of the blue. That’s just a side benefit of them talking about his brother a little bit in this episode. As of right now, they are not showing up in any episodes we’ve written. But I’m not against it.
THR: We finally got a glimpse into Harvey and Donna’s dynamic at the start of their working relationship. Was what we saw 10 years ago always something that you had in mind?
Korsh: It has changed. No, no, absolutely not. I think we were writing the season finale of season one and when Rachel asks Donna [about her and Harvey], that came in a rewrite. A lot of times, for me, things emerge over time. I don’t have things planned in my head. I remember talking about it with Sarah Rafferty; I thought that Harvey and Donna had an opportunity [to go further] one time. They almost fooled around, maybe they started kissing and one of their cautionary senses got the better of them and they called it off. It was probably Donna because she didn’t want to do this if it wasn’t going to lead to something serious, and she knew it wouldn’t. The writers came up with the idea for the flashback episode. When they pitched [the scene] to me, I was like, “Wow, that’s crazy. Let’s do it.” It still all fit in my head. She was not truthful with Rachel at the time but I understand why. Donna says to Harvey [at the end of the episode]: “We will never speak of this again.” She put it out of her mind. It rears its head from time to time, but it all made sense to me and we did it.
THR: Was there extra footage filmed when Harvey visited Donna’s apartment that we didn't see?
Korsh: That was what was written. We wanted to indicate the story point rather than to actually show them.
THR: So there was a ritual before the can opener. When did the idea for the whipped cream come to fruition?
Korsh: In the middle of the rewrite, I was like, “Wait a minute how come we’re not doing the origin of the can opener?” I think we had forgotten. At one point, we had written a lot of innuendo about what the can opener was and the cast interpreted it in such a dirty way at the table read that we thought, “OK if they’re going to interpret it that way the audience is and we didn’t mean for it to be like that.” We decided to come up with the whipped cream as the dirty thing and then come up with a completely different ritual for the can opener. We don’t obviously show what it is but we show how the idea of it happened.
THR: Have Harvey and Donna resolved their conflict?
Korsh: They’ve partially resolved it. Part of the problem is it’s not all Donna-Stephen; Harvey and Stephen are still going to continue and have conflict over the Ava Hessington case. It’s just a difficult situation to be in even if Harvey had no problem with Donna and Stephen. That’s going to continue to have some fallout, ramifications.
THR: Will Trevor return at some point?
Korsh: As of right now, we do not have him back but we have talked about it and we’re not finished with the back-half of the season, so it’s possible. We wanted to re-establish in flashback why Mike was friends with Trevor in the first place. We went through great pains to not only show them having fun, but also the two times where Trevor made a distinct choice to protect Mike at his own possible expense. One was when he didn’t sell Mike out to the [Harvard] dean. The other time was when the security guards come up, Mike is holding weed and Trevor quickly says, “If they catch us, it’s mine.” It was to show why Mike put up with Trevor for as long as he did. That was important to us.
THR: Now that Harvey’s gotten what he wanted with getting his name on the door, what’s next for him?
Korsh: In the flashback, he remembers how Jessica treated her transition and that he had had said — for her coup — “Show them the respect. Tell them you’re coming," which causes him to ultimately make the move that he makes. (Harvey informs Jessica of his plan to topple her.) Moving forward, Jessica has to respond to what he did. Obviously, you're going to feel anger and betrayal and you’re going to have to try to move past it, which they’ll do one way or another. They’re going to have some decisions to make about how they want to proceed with both the [Ava Hessington] case and the power structure of the firm.
THR: Is their relationship irreparable at this point?
Korsh: Without giving away too much, I don’t think any relationships are either so solid that they can't be permanently severed or so severed that they can't be mended. Time will tell. There are couples in real life who get divorced and then get remarried. All relationships are fluid, and Harvey and Jessica’s is no different.
THR: How many different machinations of the firm's name are we going to see this season?
Korsh: [Laughs] We take a shot at ourselves in a future episode when a character points out that our firm has changed names a couple times, so that’s all I can say.
THR: Just for clarification, how old are the characters supposed to be?
Korsh: I think it's left vague. I’m not 100 percent sure how old they are because I feel like people are who they are and I want to let them be who they are than label what their ages are.
THR: What’s coming up in the four remaining episodes?
Korsh: We’re going to see the return of at least four old “friends.” They’ll show up in the last half of the first 10 episodes. The Ava Hessington case will be wrapped up. Jessica and Harvey are going to have some ramifications following this episode. The Donna/Stephen relationship is going to move forward in an uncertain manner. Mike and Rachel’s relationship is going to continue to progress and be affected by the happenings of ["The Other Time"]. Mike is going to have a major role to play in the Ava Hessington case.
Suits Postmortem: What's Next for Harvey and Donna?
by Joyce Eng - Aug 20, 2013 11:00 PM ET
Will they or won't they? They did — 10 years ago!
Suits shed a whole lot of light on Harvey (Gabriel Macht) and Donna's (Sarah Rafferty) relationship on Tuesday's flashback episode — not to mention sent Harvey and Donna 'shippers into a tizzy. A decade ago, Harvey was pursuing Donna hard when they worked for Cameron Dennis (Gary Cole), but she refused to hook up with a co-worker. That was no longer a problem when they both quit — after which Harvey showed up at Donna's place, where she was waiting with whipped cream. You know, to do that thing Harvey had sketched out earlier.
"I think we all knew on some level that they had slept together before," Rafferty tells TVGuide.com. "In Season 1, we had a moment with Donna and Rachel (Meghan Markle), where Rachel asks, 'What's up with Harvey and Donna?' And it takes Donna a second to reply. [In Season 2,] Donna agrees to come back to work after she was fired and she does make a reference to 'that other time,' so I had a lot of ideas in my head about what their past was. I had some conversations as a result of that line. That was fun for me to read. I gotta tell you — when I got the script, I was so excited!"
While Rafferty figured that the two had hit the sheets, creator and executive producer Aaron Korsh says that he originally envisioned them never having slept together. "In my mind, they hadn't slept together, but fooled around and stopped in the middle for whatever reason — I hadn't thought it through then," he says. "That was in my head the way it had been conceived. But the writers pitched this to me, and I was like, 'Holy sh--! Let's do it.' So it was a change from my original conception, but I loved it."
The flashback, of course, ties in to the duo's present-day story line and office romance woes. After their one night together back then, Harvey asked Donna to work with him at the future Pearson Darby Specter, to which Donna agreed under the condition that they obey her "all business, no pleasure" rule. They have with each other, but Donna has since broken it by sleeping with Darby's right-hand man Stephen (Max Beesley). In the episode's closing minutes, Harvey finally admits that he's bothered by it.
"That was hard for him. I certainly don't think Harvey regrets their deal and asking Donna to work for him, and I don't think Donna does either," Korsh says. "I think Donna would've made a different decision about the outcome had she known how things would turn out 10 years later. But I don't think she would've not worked with Harvey. She accepted the relationship on the terms that were available to her then. I think had Harvey wanted to pursue a relationship with her 10 years ago, she would've. ... If Harvey were to pursue Donna now, I think she might accept it, but it wouldn't be easy and she'd have to be convinced he wants a relationship with her and he doesn't right now."
But is Donna ready? Explaining her "arrangement" with Stephen, Donna told Harvey, with a hint of sadness in her voice, that she has to "live my life." "I'm not sure if she wants a boyfriend or to settle down or to date Harvey. I think what happens with Donna is a lot of these moments, she's surprised by," Rafferty says. "The stuff that comes out of her subconscious surprises her. Last year, when Harvey said, 'You look beautiful' it turns out he was talking to Jessica (Gina Torres). For a moment, she thought he was talking to her and she was surprised that he wasn't talking to her."
Adds Korsh: "They have rules about not mixing work with their personal lives, but they have to grab their opportunities for happiness when they can get them. I think that's what Donna is realizing with Stephen. It's tied to the comment Rachel makes in Episode 2: 'It's about having a life, but I guess you don't know about that.' Rachel regrets it, but it's not a coincidence that Donna starts flirting with Stephen the next episode and they make this arrangement."
That arrangement is due to expire after six weeks when Stephen returns to England, but he has since asked for an extension after developing feelings for Donna. Those feelings might be reciprocated, according to Korsh and Rafferty. "She's a grown-up and she's going to consider Stephen," Rafferty says. "She may be surprised by what's coming up for her as a result of her deal with Stephen." Things might be complicated, however, by the fact that Stephen gave up a key witness to Cameron in Ava Hessington's murder trial, but Rafferty doesn't believe Donna would ever be involved with Stephen if she thinks he's undermining Harvey.
"I see a lot of messages online and on Twitter — people don't trust Stephen and I understand that, and there might be more to Stephen that meets the eye," Korsh says. "But that does not mean he's deceiving or using Donna. I think that's completely separate from the case and I think you'll see that."
So what's next for Harvey and Donna? They will discuss her relationship with Stephen more in depth next week, but with the Brit in the picture, don't expect Harvey and Donna to do anything else with whipped cream any time soon. "I'm so relieved that I don't have to make these decisions about them getting together!" Rafferty says. "I think their relationship is incredibly dynamic the way it is. Donna believes that she and Harvey are not right for each other. I think she thinks there would have be some shift for them to be right for each other and there isn't right now. ... But what I love about these flashback episodes is that we can give fans little pieces of what they want."
Speaking of that, we finally learned the origin of the can opener! After Donna agreed to work with Harvey again in the diner 10 years ago, they decided they needed a new ritual, and so Harvey stealthily stole a can opener from a waitress' apron. But, like Harvey and Donna's past, that was not the original idea.
"We definitely wanted to have the origin of it in this episode, but there was a different origin in the first draft of this," Korsh says. "But the cast read so much into it and the network read so much into it in a way we didn't mean to — they read it as a sexual device! So we had to change it."
"Why didn't you tell me?" - Donna
"I shouldn't have to." - Harvey
"I read. I analyze. I fix." - Donna
"I don't want you working for me anymore." - Harvey to Donna
"I'm not into you. I'm Donna." - Donna
"You are definitely not a gentleman! What would we even do it with?" - Donna
"Whipped cream." - Harvey
"So now I know why you wanted to meet me at the elevator." - Mike to Harvey, looking at the new sign
"I'm here. You're here. Do your job." - Harvey to Donna
"I'm all for skirting the law, but this is breaking the law!" - Harvey
"I'm here. You're here. Do your job." - Cameron to Harvey
"If you do this, you're gonna keep doing it." - Donna to Harvey
"Don't tell 'em you're coming and slam the door behind them." - Jessica
"If I'd known that this was going to happen, I never would have come over." - Harvey to Donna
"I don't want to find out what kind of lawyer I'd be without you." - Harvey to Donna
"Maybe we can think of something to do with a can opener?" - Harvey
"Harvey, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Actually ..." - Donna
"I'm not his girlfriend. I'm his Girl Friday." - Donna
"I made a move in the night. I get Ava Hessington acquitted, Darby backs me for managing partner." - Harvey
"I guess congratulations are in order." - Jessica
"I don't want it anymore." - Harvey
"Get out of my sight." - Jessica
What do you think will happen now?
I just hope they won't forget about "the other time" and that it will be brought up again!
And Harvey admitted that it bothers him that Donna and Stephen are dating (btw I'm SO over this Stephen thing, can we end it?) which is a first step. Now he needs to admit he has feelings for her and then he needs to realize he wants to be with her.
I think a long journey awaits us but it's gonna be worth it!
I think they are in love to each other from the beginning but It's hard, especially for Harvey, to admit it. Stephen's storyline is almost over, so... Personally I have no problem to see them to start a relationship, my issue is that I hope the screenwriters won't ruin their dynamics who I love. Anyway in this moment I think Harvey should work to his personal issues before to start a stable relationship. I love this character. He's so complex
I agree with you Gio! The thing about Harvey and Donna is that everything has always been so subtle with them. And now, knowing that they slept together changes everything. They are not platonic and never were.
They buried that night together but things don't stay hidden forever. It's gonna come out eventually.
btw what do you guys think that they didn't show the kiss?
Part of me is kinda bugged because i really wanted to see a kiss but on the other hand they just left us wanting more, and when they'll finally kiss in present times it will be 100 times more satisfying
