Marvel Cinematic Universe - The Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) [Spoilers & Speculation] #6: Behold!! We have a Vision. - Page 15

**PhoenixRising** · 05-16-2015, 04:10 PM

I agree with all of the criticisms in that article.

Especially with Kevin Feige's treatment of female characters. No Hank Pym in the MCU also means no Janet Van Dyne, and without the Wasp, you're missing one of the most important characters in the Avengers. Hell, if I were running Marvel Studios, not only would you see Janet Van Dyne as The Wasp alongside Hank Pym as Ant-Man/Giant-Man, you'd also have seen She-Hulk(Jennifer Walters), Tigra(Greer Grant), and Captain Marvel(Carol Danvers) by now. As I stated in my previous post, Black Widow is an effective spy, assassin, and S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, but she's way out of her league in the Avengers. I don't care what Edgar Wright's Ant-Man script was, if it wasn't compatible with the Avengers mythology and eliminated Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne from the story in place of an irrelevant character like Scott Lang, then it shouldn't have been used. Kevin Feige's biggest problem was his underestimating Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne's importance to the Avengers, and his decision to arbitrarily toss them aside is an insult, and keeps the MCU and the Avengers movies from being as good as they could've been.

I think I'm pretty much done with the MCU at this point.

**miranstarr** · 05-17-2015, 05:42 AM

I still wish the movie hadn't ended with Tony and Steve acting like best friends. There's just so much they're trying to cram into Civil War that I'm not sure how it's going to work out.

Logan · 05-17-2015, 06:22 AM

Phoniex Rising ,thank you for the long and interesting read . You made somne valid points about the whole marvel film universe . It is verey clear you are a huge fan of Ant manEdgar Rice first vison of the film
again from 2014 why he was walked away from the movie he had worked for yrs on

Quote:

This story first appeared in the June 6 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine.

After the abrupt May 23 exit of Edgar Wright, the geek-favorite filmmaker behind Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz, from Marvel Studios' long-gestating Ant-Man movie, the studio has insisted the Paul Rudd film will be finished in time to make its July 17, 2015, release date.

But while a source close to the studio says a search for a new director is underway, some observers believe Marvel president Kevin Feige will have a hard time pulling together the risky film in such a short time frame.

The challenges are clear in finding a director who can pick up a project infused with Wright's vision for years. In addition, sources say the film's key crew -- its heads of departments -- departed when it became clear production would not begin as scheduled July 28. Rudd's reps say he's still in, and a source close to the production says all key crew positions will be filled shortly.

Wright, 40, is an irreverent British filmmaker, and sources say Marvel had been unhappy with his take on Ant-Man for weeks. Originally set to begin shooting June 2, the production had been put on hiatus while Feige ordered revisions of the script that was co-written by Wright and Joe Cornish. According to sources, Wright had been willing to make revisions earlier in the process. But the new rewrites took place without Wright's input, and when he received Marvel's new version early during the week of May 19, he walked, prompting a joint statement announcing his exit "due to differences in their visions of the film."

The move came as a shock because Wright had been working on the project -- about a scientist who can shrink to the size of an ant -- since 2006. Feige told MTV in 2013 that Wright's vision "is the only reason we're making the movie." But Marvel and Wright were different entities when they began their relationship. Marvel was an upstart, independent and feisty as it began building the Marvel Studios brand with the first two Iron Man films and Captain America: The First Avenger.

Now owned by Disney, Marvel has established itself as a reliable maker of hits. Feige essentially is the showrunner on $150 million episodes in a Marvel universe that expands in phases. The company "Marvel-izes" its projects, as a source with ties to the company puts it. That sometimes leads to clashes with filmmakers who have strong points of view, as Kenneth Branagh found during the making of Thor. He did not return for the sequel, nor did Joe Johnston for Captain America. Patty Jenkins, who directed the 2003 Charlize Theron hit Monster, was hired for Thor 2 then fired. Edward Norton clashed with Marvel during post on The Incredible Hulk and was replaced by Mark Ruffalo for the character's return in The Avengers. Terrence Howard similarly was replaced by Don Cheadle in the Iron Man sequels. And on May 24, Drew Goddard was replaced as showrunner by Steven S. DeKnight on Marvel's upcoming Netflix series Daredevil (though Goddard is working on Sony's Marvel movie Sinister Six)

"Kevin Feige [and his top lieutenants] run Marvel with a singularity of vision, but when you take a true auteur and throw him into the mix, this is what you get," says a source. "They don't want you to speak up too much or have too much vision. People who have never worked there don't understand how they operate, but if you trust them, they have an amazing track record."

Ant-Man's tone might have been too quirky for the Marvel universe. Insiders say Marvel feels it already might have gone outside its comfort zone with August's Guardians of the Galaxy, a space adventure heavy on odd humor and featuring a talking raccoon. In 2011, Sony's similarly comic The Green Hornet with Seth Rogen failed to launch the franchise for which the studio hoped.

Wright declined comment, but he tweeted, then deleted, the word "selfie," followed by a sad-faced Buster Keaton holding a Cornetto ice cream cone (Wright's trio of genre movies is known as the Cornetto trilogy). Keaton famously lost his independence after his ambitious 1926 film The General didn't perform well. He took a job at MGM, which he later called the worst decision of his life. Avengers director Joss Whedon also tweeted a photo of himself appearing dejected and seeming to salute Wright with a Cornetto.

Wright's first studio experience also was fraught. He directed 2010's acclaimed Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, which bombed for Universal, grossing $31.5 million domestically. Now his second studio film has been taken away. James Gunn, director of Guardians, might have said it best. He wrote on Facebook that Wright and Marvel "just don't have personalities that mesh in a comfortable way."

So this is showing a pattern on Marvel studios dealings with dirextors screenwroiters on there films. Joss, as i posted a week or so ago, told of what he had to fight to keep in the movie what battles he lost (No Loki) almost not Thor getting to the meainng of his nightmare vision

Age of Ultron had its really cool moments and yet when I left the theater ,other fans seemed to agree on that it wasnt this great superhero film.

**miranstarr** · 05-17-2015, 06:30 AM

I thought Ultron was a bit too jokey, mimicking Tony Stark of course, but they could have really dialed it down.

Sweet Embrace · 05-17-2015, 07:14 AM

I guess with so many characters, they kinda wanted to tie loose ends regarding Tony and Steve being all buddy buddy. I loved seeing Falcon too but of course didnt expect much from the cameo

**albion_princess** · 05-17-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *OldHollywoodStarlet* (View Post)

I need to see the film again, which I plan to do, to get know how I really feel about it. Overall I loved it, but I wasn't a fan of the whole

Spoiler:

Bruce/Natasha story line. That felt totally forced and came out of nowhere.

Spoiler:

TWS is still my favourite comic film.

I did enjoy AOU, but I didn't want to rewatch it again straight away like I did with The Avengers and TWS.

Logan · 05-17-2015, 11:44 AM

Avengers Age of Ultron brought in another 38 million plus this weekend .

Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $372,008,000 32.6%
+ Foreign: $770,500,000 67.4%
= Worldwide: $1,142,508,00

Dont get me wrong I enjoyed the movie a kot. it was different then the first . I understood the Natasha Bruce connection ,wasn't forced it was ,to me ,just feelings that happened due to there bond. Scarlett witch could calm down the Hulk with her sorcery. if that is what they want to do.

Joss ,the writers gave us a more human side of Bruce Natasha Clint . If we recall Ed norton issue was he wanted to show the other side of the Hulk ,how he really felt and lived . The sadness that he could never have a romantic relationship with anyone. We got that .

Vision entrance into the movie was one of favorite parts, i was a huge fan of vision, in the comic books ,going back to the late 70's. Falcon also was a favorite from the pages .

Having read a lot of comics when i was a teenager, then as a adult seeing the changes in the diffenret hero's . not just Marvel it is Dc too. They change what was already comic book lore .

Put it this way no matter if it is a book or comic character ,written for the big screen , changes happen .

**PhoenixRising** · 05-17-2015, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (View Post)

Phoniex Rising ,thank you for the long and interesting read . You made somne valid points about the whole marvel film universe . It is verey clear you are a huge fan of Ant manEdgar Rice first vison of the film
again from 2014 why he was walked away from the movie he had worked for yrs on

I'm sorry, you didn't get the point of my post. I was actually saying that I was against Marvel and Kevin Feige using Edgar Wright's Ant-Man script because it focused on Scott Lang, who is an irrelevant character as far as the Avengers go, and it eliminates two of the founding members of The Avengers, Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne, from the story. I was making the case that Marvel should never have used Edgar Wright's script in the first place and had made an Ant-Man film featuring Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne as Ant-Man/Giant-Man and The Wasp, which would've been more compatible with the Avengers mythology. Hank Pym is the one who created Ultron in the comics, and Janet Van Dyne is the first and longest-running female member of the Avengers, and having Tony Stark create Ultron instead and replacing Hank Pym with Scott Lang, while having Black Widow in place of The Wasp only hurt the MCU and the Avengers overall.

My argument is that all of this was unnecessary and useless since Edgar Wright only ended up quitting the film after Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige finally had to admit that Wright's script "just wasn't working," which is something that should've been apparent from the beginning when Iron Man went into production. And if Wright's script was so incompatible with the MCU, then it shouldn't have been used in the first place, especially when it eliminates two of the main characters from the Avengers storyline.

And I don't buy the argument that "changes happen" if the comic gets transferred to the screen. If those changes do not improve on the material and only hurt the story, then what good is it? Stories work because of certain elements that make them work. If you alter them too much, then the story falls apart into contrived nonsense. I've made the argument that making Tony Stark Ultron's creator instead of Hank Pym doesn't work because the plot is absurd and requires the audience to believe that Stark is an irresponsible moron, and then his entire creation of Ultron is later treated as inconsequential and an afterthought. Hank Pym created Ultron by accident and never intended for Ultron to be a weaponized peacekeeping force, so at least Hank was not responsible for what happened. But Tony does this on purpose and then acts without remorse, while everyone seems to just forgive and forget. And he goes from being convinced that Ultron is necessary to realizing what a stupid mistake it was so fast, it stretches credibility by making Tony a complete idiot in order to fit the plot in, which is bad screenwriting.

And the absence of Janet Van Dyne(The Wasp) from the story takes away one of the strongest female characters from the story. Again, no offense, but Black Widow simply does not belong in The Avengers. She's much better suited as a SHIELD agent than as a superhero, and Joss and Marvel have taken a lot of criticism over her character's diminished role on the team compared to her male counterparts. But again, that's not Joss' fault. He has to work around her limitations and is pretty much forced into the position that he's in. The Wasp is an actual superhero and would give him a lot more to work with as a character. Black Widow being on the Avengers is like having Catwoman as a member of the Justice League, which might explain things a bit more.

And I agree, Captain America: The Winter Soldier is hands-down the best Marvel film, mostly because it deviates the least from the comics and stays true to the character. Iron Man(the first one) comes in as the second best.

**miranstarr** · 05-18-2015, 02:20 PM

I'm hoping Captain America: Civil War doesn't fall into the traps the other movies did, but I don't know. It seems like they are trying to cram a lot into a short amount of time.

**albion_princess** · 05-19-2015, 01:36 PM

Yeah, but I'm trying to stay optimistic.

Unless the film is five hours long.

Butterfly85 · 05-19-2015, 01:45 PM

I'm really looking forward to CW, love all the people that are in it but yeah I hope it doesn't affect the movie badly. I don't think it will though.

Sweet Embrace · 05-19-2015, 01:57 PM

Like Matt said, as most comic book fans will say, no movie will be transformed perfectly to our standards. As for the romance, I know a lot of people are gonna be pissed about it - what i saw it was Black Widow being the only one to understand Bruce and bonding over that. Romances happened all the time in the history of marvel so its not something for people to make too big of a deal over, but i know on the screen thats different.

**miranstarr** · 05-19-2015, 05:15 PM

Ah well, the movies were never going to please everyone anyway.

TheCheshireKitten · 05-19-2015, 07:52 PM

I love Black Widow being a part of the Avengers. She's one of my very favorite characters in the MCU. I don't feel that she's ever been out of place in these films.

I didn't like the Natasha/Bruce subplot or how Whedon wrote it/executed it on screen -I understand some of the criticisms and share a few, but feel the execution is at fault, rather than what Whedon truly intended.

I enjoyed AOU, but I can't call it better than the first. I did love Scarlet Witch (favorite new character and probably my favorite character in the movie) and enjoyed Quicksilver. I loved Hawkeye in this one, too.

And seeing the team actually being a team was awesome.

The Bruce/Nat stuff, and the way it feels like Whedon kinda ignored where the characters were in their previous films were my big issues with it. I felt like Steve should've seemed more concerned with trying to get back to searching for Bucky, he and Nat should've seemed closer, Tony going from the end of IM3 to this was kinda jarring.

I also felt like there wasn't enough tension at the end with Tony and Steve - though my reason for wanting it might have more to do with the fact that I felt like the choice Tony made with Ultron got shrugged off a bit too much after Vision was created (and might be my reason why I didn't really enjoy that character), but also because of Civil War, too.

As much as I enjoy Tony, I'm ready for Steve (or someone) to get a few good punches in. I mean, Bruce made the choice too, (with Ultron) but you could see how heavily it weighed on him, as opposed to Tony. It made me feel more for him.

Logan · 05-19-2015, 07:53 PM

It helped us see and feel the real Bruce banner and his pain . Also they can't make Hulk to emotional , or it would ruin him . When I saw the movie , i also saw The Avengers also . No matter how many times I had seen it , still had a few scenes I forgot .
Since X Men days of future past has just been released with additional footage of Rogue cut.. We can hope say buy Dec to release extended cut . I really can picture Loki in Thor's nightmare scenes .. I don't think it would have been too much star power

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Fan Forum > DC & Marvel > Marvel Cinematic Universe > The Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) [Spoilers & Speculation] #6: Behold!! We have a Vision.