Anthea82

I think Fellowes is predictable in his writing so it's not that I expected something "wow!!".

While season one was very good because it was better planned and written I can't say the same of season two.
Season 1 had its low moments in my opinion (the way they presented the Pamuk affair and how Cora lost the baby) but they were sort of "covered" by the rest of the story.

Season 2 was just rushed in all aspects! Was Fellowes doing other 3 zillion things?
I understand that the budget is what it is (although rather large) so I could not expect more from the war itself. I disliked most of all the Patrick revival and the miracolous recovery of Matthew (could have waited a bit long).
Also Sybil/Tom and Anna/Bates SL seemed rather static. I could go on quoting all the things you have already mentioned!

As a Mary/Matthew shipper, I believe they were meant as an OPT from the very beginning, and that's why I think Richard and Lavinia were written as secondary parts to show that M/M belonged together and to bring them together. Lavinia was the opposite of Mary for Matthew, and Richard was the opposite of Matthew for Mary. Although some things could have been developed better, I think they were in character.

ScarletCourt

Yeah, JF was filming Titanic from April - July of last year while filming S2 from March - October. He was probably working first drafts of Romeo and Juliet as well (which is filming now.

You have a great point about Sir Richard and Lavinia essentially being the opposite of Matthew and Mary respectively. Only a fair-weather M/M shipper, so I didn't notice that until you pointed it out. Still, I would have liked to know why Matthew loved Lavinia enough to propose to her. Undoubtedly, M/M were endgame. I actually expected that things wouldn't come to a conclusion by the S2 C/S and that Mary would spend some time in America with Matthew chasing her down before they would finally come together at the end of S3 to give it a full arc.

xiaoyue

Agree soooo much with what everyone is saying.

I thought Matthew's paralysis story would end with him not being able to walk but being able to have children. I think that would have been the best way to handle it while still being able to move on with the overall SL and M/M. Lavinia dying was trite and unnecessary, and I was doubly upset that they killed off her father as well. So much for the Swire clan! They are completely out of the picture.

L/M/M/R was just handled poorly. They didn't develop Lavinia or Richard very well or the M/L and M/R relationships. The show didn't work to show us why M/M are better together than the other ships, they just turned Richard into a villian and killed off Lavinia.

Robert/Jane upset me but I would have believed it much more if Jane had been there from day 1 and we saw their relationship develop over the whole series, and if they had shown the breakdown in Robert/Cora from the start. Actually, I think they should have just nixed Ethel and had Jane as the replacement maid from Ep1.

Sybil/Branson and Anna/Bates, both as couples and as characters, were obviously given short shrift and written almost as afterthoughts. One moment Sybil is nervously going off to school and the next she is perfectly comfortable with being a nurse and completely used to it all. Gwen's entire storyline S1 was getting out of service and all Branson gets is a random "I'm a journalist now!" in the last episode. I remember how I was so excited to see how Vera would throw a wrench into Anna/Bates SL and then she turned out to just be a psycho who may or may not have killed herself just to get back at Bates. And the idea that Vera would actually be successful in her plot to blackmail Bates is laughable. She had no evidence other than hearsay from other people, plus the fact that half of London already knows about Pamuk.

I could go on and on! The fake Patrick storyline should have been nixed completely, Edith should have been allowed an actual romance - the house was FULL of soldiers - and Thomas should have had some kind of storyline besides just sitting around smoking after Lt. Courtney died. Isobel apparently had a lobotomy between seasons. Where were her classic bouts with Violet?

Very very disappointed with S2. I seriously hope that JF took the criticisms to heart and will try to get back to form. With a reduced cast and less time covered it may just happen!

ScarletCourt

xiaoyue - Without a doubt whys and wherefores were tossed for the story to move forward in S2. We didn't see much build up and the ones we did see (like Ethel and her baby), no one was interested in.

I guess what you meant by reduced cast is that Lavinia and Vera are dead and Sir Richard is pretty much out of the picture and none are being replaced. The thing though that will make S3 interesting is that there's change in character's lives rather than additional characters. We have Bates but in jail. We have Tom married to Sybil and moved to the upstairs. We have Thomas and Daisy promoted into new positions. All of these changes bring new drama in their own right, which was lacking in S2. Yes, with the war we had Thomas joining the medical corp and then after he got hurt he ran DA Convalescent, but he didn't really change positions in his life. He was still out smoking with O'Brien and chatting in the Servants Hall, which incidentally none of the other nurses under Thomas's purview spent their off time. I mean they didn't need to say anything but it would have been nice to see them chatting at the other end of the table in their nurses uniforms. We also didn't see Sybil mingling with the other nurses. She always had scenes with patients or her family. One of the reasons for her working as a nurse was so that she could eventually relate to working class people when she married Tom. Never saw that.

LOL, Isobel got a lobotomy. Never truer words were said.

Anthea82

Thanks, it might explain some things then!


You know what, even if I thought the CS was perfect, I would have liked to see Mary going to America with Anna, and then having Matthew chase her down! It would have angsty and FUN! :-) I can imagine the last seconds of the CS with Matthew saying to Isobel, after Mary has left "Mother, I'm going for her!"


Since a lot of things are left to our imagination I think of it this way: Matthew has been left totally heartbroken so when he meets Lavinia he sees in her something completely different from Mary. She is lovely, pretty, quiet, how can you not like her? Matthew finds himself drawn to her, and since it's wartime, and there is no certainty about the future, he takes a chance. He thinks he might be happy with her, because she sounds like a safe harbour where to come home.
So to some extent I think he loved her, but not and never as much as Mary.

ScarletCourt

You know there's a surprising lack of fanfiction addressing this prospect. I would definitely read it.

Lavinia was Matthew's rebound relationship and to think that he would have married her if she didn't die.

Before I saw the end of S2, I actually wanted for Matthew and Lavinia to marry before the end of the war and then have her die in childbirth or from the Spanish Flu and for Sir Richard and Mary to marry and have him killed off in some sort of accident before M/M to get together eventually. I know it's not a popular thing among loyal M/M fans, but I thought it would have been a bit more realistic.

L i N d $ @ y

I don't know about Fellowes being predictable for me as I always don't know what to expect in every episode generally.

I do prefer season 1 over season 2 and only because s2 was very rushed for me but then again, it's the war, things can get chaotic so I can get past that. I just liked how season 1 was told, how the characters developed and the stories progressed.

I do think that whole Patrick thing will still be an issue in s3, but that's just me. We have't closed the book on that one yet and it could trigger some angst for M/M.

One storyline I didn't like was the whole Robert/Jane thing. I was like "huh?" It's a very weak one to show another side of Robert we're not expecting. Otherwise, all the rest were told realistically or works for me.

Anthea82

I know that Earl/Maid affairs happened all the time, but for Robert it seemed so out of character since he loves his wife! Didn't like it all!
I guess it all had to do with the mid-life crisis he was going through LOL!

ScarletCourt

That's the thing, though. They spent all of S1 showing and telling us that Robert and Cora's marriage was an incredibly solid and happy one despite the fact that Robert originally married her for her money and then have this Jane thing where he "wanted her with every fibre of his being" seemed so OOC. To add insult to injury, Jane had Cora's colouring and they had other similarities in size and shape. I did not like it at all! I've heard it discussed as a plot device for Robert being more understanding of Mary when the Pamuk incident was revealed to him. If that was the reason JF put it in there then, that was just wrong.

L i N d $ @ y

I'll never understand that storyline. It seemed so out-of-place.

I agree, very OOC. Also I felt that apart from fighting at the war, Thomas didn't really have a solid storyline. Although I don't want him (along with O'Brien) to poke fun at Bates all the time. But now that Bates is in jail, perhaps they'll set their sights on a newbie at service. That seems to be the thing they love to do.

ScarletCourt

So what was your favorite episode in S2?

Mine is either 2x07 or 2x08 for obvious reasons.

Goldenrose

I sure hope they back off Bates!


And yes, if the Robert thing was just a plot device for Pamuk, I'd be mad. It was too out of place and out of character for that.



My favorites are 2x08 and The Christmas Special for obvious reasons

Anthea82

2x01, as train station scene is my favourite ever and 2x05, even if it's so sad, great acting in general, especially from Dockery and Stevens.

L i N d $ @ y

Same here.

Here too. 2x05 wrecked my heart but that's the episode I cried the most.

Goldenrose

Ughhhh They're lovely. And that train scene broke my heartttt