Patano

I think that the Sybil/Mary scene in 2x04 was just one big example of Sybil playing a careful game of playing down down their relationship in order not to alarm Mary. She was clearly trying to test the water concerning her family's reaction towards her relationship with Tom. She chose Mary, because she knew that Mary would not give them away if she had not seen any serious reason, and because Mary saw them before, so maybe Sybil wanted to tell Mary "her own version" and not wait till Mary starts to make any "investigations" concerning the matter. She could not tell the whole truth - if she had told Mary that she loved Tom or had given her any impression that she considered his proposal seriously, Mary would have surely gone to Robert and Tom would have been gone, no matter what promises Sybil had made. That's why she told Mary she was unsure - it was not a complete lie like "I don't love him", but kept her on the safe side. Mary's impression of "a full of himself chauffeur who pursues my sister, but my sister's sensible and does not encourage him or consider this seriously" prevented her from going to their father.
Similarly, another example of the "careful game" is when Sybil told Mary that they "didn't kiss or shake hands". Shake, not hold. We know that if she had used another word it wouldn't have been true. But honestly, just look at Sybil in this scene - it's clear she's not 100% truthful with Mary and just tries to test the waters. And Mary of course did not think twice about what Sybil was saying, because it was all inconceivable and ridiculous for her.

The whole Mary/Sybil scene is a very careful piece of dialogue on Fellowes' part. Like actually most of S/T scenes e.g. later in the garage we have such an exchange - "Is is too high a price"? -"It is a high price". Sybil's very lucky that Tom is so perceptive and picked up her clues and signals. Especially when you take into account that he values blunt honesty. What Sybil often stated indrectly, he stated directly.

As for 2x08 - I think it was natural that she got a bit scared. It had nothing to do with her feelings for him, just a normal cold feet reaction. Or maybe she started to think that it was not the best moment for the announcement and it would be better to settle the matter in a more private setting? And later she fought for him so much and without hesitation, honestly how can you deny her feelings? Or just look at how she looks at him from 1x04 to 2x08. I think this is VERY consistent . I elaborated on the ticket before, but Sybil was really hesitant at the beginning to "give up her whole world", and she wouldn't have considered giving it up completely if she had not fallen in love.

Edit:

I think that you answered your own question here - she was afraid it could lead into a full-blown affair and did not want to give him any false hope. And well, aristocrats have bigger self-restraint, I suppose. On the other hand, it was her behaviour that led to the almost kiss, and it was her who leant into the actual kiss first.

Here's another JBF quote, this time from the s2 press pack: "She is very aware that despite her feelings, it is a very scary thing to consider an affair". Apart from the affair mention, Sybil's feelings for Tom are here once more treated as an obvious thing, not an uncertain thing to be settled. Her doubts and concerns lie elsewhere.

confessor_meggy

exactly my opinion, as a viewer I basically didn't believe a word she said to Mary, especially the "I'm not even sure if I like him that way". It was a total diversion scheme, she had to cover for him at that point as best as she could if she wanted him to keep his job...and I personally loved her comment "He's frightfully full of himself",just loved how Jess played it, and it shows the confusion of a person who has fallen in love but is trying to find excuses to not say so.

the beginning of the drawing room, I didn't quite get honestly. When he walks in and there's the close up on Sybil, she looked proud and very in love with him, then her comment when she walked up to him I just...didn't understand it, it's not like he could have said "oh sorry, thought this was the garage" xD...once he was in the room and not in his uniform how could he have walked out without an explanation in order to "not worry Granny"???

Patano

Maybe she was too much daydreaming about him and then hard reality hit her and made her confused . Honestly, I think that people do not behave in a rational manner all the time, especially under the Dowager Countess' stern gaze .

Edit:
As for Baby Branson's gender - I'm in minority here but I prefer a girl for them. At the time when people preferred their first child to be a boy, especially in aristocratic circles, I would like to see a couple for whom it does not matter at all. Also, I would like S/T to change the world for this little girl. Or maybe I just want her to be daddy's little girl .

Nonetheless, I do agree that boy offers some great storyline potential too. Baby Branson can be actually either a girl or boy for me as long as Dr Clarkson is kept away from him/her .

It's the first thought that comes to my mind whenever I start considering that maybe indeed boy would be a better option .

HarshBench

Okay, you guys are right about the scene with Mary. It's like she started off being defensive and trying to talk herself out of it but by the end she's basically talked herself into it.

I especially love the "full of himself" line. To me Branson's cockiness is extremely attractive, and it's clear here that deep down Sybil likes it too. And it parallels exactly what Mary said about Matthew after their first meeting, which is funny. These sisters are both drawn to men who despite not being born into privilege have tremendous self-confidence. Smart girls, because the upstarts will come out on top when the dust settles.

BTW I kind of agree about a girl being a cool reflection of their progressivism. Which is perfect, because really I'll be thrilled either way.

DiamondDreaming

I need to rewatch that Mary/Sybil scene, but from what I remember of it I definitely agree that Sybil is desperately trying to divert Mary's attention away from prying into what she'd seen. . Plus, I think she could almost be trying to convince herself that she isn't sure whether she really likes him, despite the fact that it is clear she does - hence the "frightfully full of himself" line.

HarshBench

Oh, I know. This is the only time we really see Tom looking uncomfortable in his own skin. S3 should be very interesting.

A few TWoPers criticized Tom for being so quick to anger in his confrontations with Robert. Which......REALLY, people? He tells him that he wants to love, honor and obey his daughter and is treated like so much garbage. Maybe he should have expected it, but he doesn't have to like it and he sure doesn't have to take it lying down.

baileycat

Too quick to anger? Wow, so he was just suppose to stand there calmly while both he AND Sybil were being insulted. That's ridiculous. I just don't understand some people's reasoning at all.

Oh god yeah. Keep the Doctor far far away from the baby. He's nothing but a curse on this family.

DiamondDreaming

I can't believe people are saying that about Tom's reactions to Robert! Robert raised his voice & threw some rather nasty accusations their way. I think Tom reacted rather well tbh. And especially when Robert tries to buy him off when he visits him at the Grantham Arms! I would have reacted worse

Patano

Oh yes, I loved him in this scene. In both scenes I actually admired Tom's patience. In the drawing room confrontation he in fact reacted strongly only once when Robert insulted Sybil by suggesting that she got seduced. I love it when Tom tells Robert that he should give his daughter some credit for knowing her own mind.

Am I the only one that gets scared by Robert's yelling, BTW? Everytime he yells (also in 1x06) it sends chills down my spine.

HarshBench

I read one review that said the message Tom is trying to get across in the hotel scene is that he, not Robert, is the most important man in Sybil's life now. That's why he makes that comment about her coming when he calls.

heart devoured

Thank you to all for having such in-depth discussion on all S/T matters. It has been an interesting read these past ~3 pages, for sure. And now I think I'm even more anxiously waiting for season three to see what way this Bransons storyline will go.

On Tom and his being "quick to anger". I recall actually waiting to see Tom react defensively to Robert's insults. I would've been disappointed in him if he didn't. He and Sybil are so much better than what Robert suggested them being.

Agreed, agreed, agreed! If she doesn't somehow work for pay while pregnant/a mother I would really like it if she'd be otherwise active, be it political activism or volunteer work or something to that effect.

DiamondDreaming

Yes I loved that he said that. His respect for her is so clear.

Thats a really interesting interpretation & it makes sense. I was just so angry that he thought for a second that Tom would be bought off just like that! Obviously he has no idea whats been going on & how obvious it is that he loves Sybil, but still... The disrespect

And yesyesyes, I have no doubt Sybil will stay politically active in some way. She's far too passionate about it to not keep it up !

... And just to break up all this text (& because it's such a gorgeous scene! ):


+

ScarletCourt

I don't have a problem with his yelling. My problem is that Sybil seems to be the only daughter that gets any yelling from Robert. Despite what Mary and Edith have done to one another, he's never yelled at either one of them.

heart devoured

^That is a good point, ScarletCourt. I understand it being only 1910s, but I think Mary and Edith would've actually deserved a yelling from Robert far more than Sybil ever did for anything she'd done.

And thank you for that lovely gif, Nic. (Nic is your name, is it?) About time we had some pretty too in this thread.

DiamondDreaming

I hadn't realised that it's only Sybil that ever gets shouted at, but that is certainly very interesting. Maybe it is to do with the fact she is his youngest child & he is more worried for her welfare? Hence the big shouting at after she sneaks off to the counting of the vote. TBH, as much as his disprespectful outbursts in 208 annoy me, I'd expect my father to be angry in his position so I understand his reaction to an extent!

Thanks Laura (thats your name in your sig yes? I love that even if people put their name in their sig we are all still wary of just assuming hehe), it really is a lovely gif isn't it? . I thought it might seem a bit, idk, ~fangirly to post pretty gifs in here whilst there is so much indepth discussion going on, but I have no shame, so pretty gifs I shall bring