[Steph26]

In case anyone wants to conveniently watch the clip. I mean, it is amazing.



https://youtu.be/QyUSiuz66Rg

[Leelith]

Why do you post that. You are making me feel. Do you really want an essay from me?

[Alexa]

Go read the old threads and you'll see why Kenni says that.

Okay, it'll be time for a new round tonight, which I would post but I dont know the current tally. Man sometimes new threads can be a pain.

[destroyer of worlds]

I'll pull up the tally later, Alexa. Didn't get to it last night.

For now, the pretty:




X

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by kenni727 (View Post) How about we just perpetually appreciate? This was something I wanted addressed from the moment Clarke walked away. I recall trying to explain her abandonment away - that Bellamy (and others) would understand and it would just be water under the bridge. But I realized I was trying to convince myself of that because I feared that's how the show would handle it. I feared the show would continually justify Clarke's actions and ignore how much she hurt Bellamy. I practically shouted "Hallelujah!" when Bellamy was given the opportunity to voice his pain. And for Clarke to face that.

Yes, that works too I hate how some people twist that scene into something "abusive", it's disturbing how easily that word is thrown around sometimes. There's no abuse here. There's resentment and remorse and frustration, all of which is justified IMO. Plus, it's healthy for people to let it all out like that. They needed to have this talk. Did it annoy me when he handcuffed her? Of course. Do I know why he did it? Yes. It was misguided but Bellamy really did think he was helping her there.

Originally Posted by AnaMack (View Post) Right? I mean, Bellamy freaking Blake opened up about feeling hurt that she left him. Not us, him.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by April7739 (View Post) Oh, yes, Lisa, when he says "You left me," it really pulls at the heartstrings. Not many men would just lay it all out there like that, in a way that makes it clear how abandoned they felt and in a way that shows how vulnerable they are. Normally on TV, in that type of scene, you'd hear the girl saying, "You left me." I love how this show constantly just flips gender norms around.

Right? It's nice to see the guy be the "sensitive" and "emotional" one in a scene like this. There's no grovelling here from Clarke's side, it's Bellamy who's letting out his emotions and frustrations (and I swear there is moisture in his eyes ok).

[destroyer of worlds]

Originally Posted by Vacatia (View Post) Yes, that works too I hate how some people twist that scene into something "abusive", it's disturbing how easily that word is thrown around sometimes. There's no abuse here. There's resentment and remorse and frustration, all of which is justified IMO. Plus, it's healthy for people to let it all out like that. They needed to have this talk. Did it annoy me when he handcuffed her? Of course. Do I know why he did it? Yes. It was misguided but Bellamy really did think he was helping her there. Right? It's nice to see the guy be the "sensitive" and "emotional" one in a scene like this. There's no grovelling here from Clarke's side, it's Bellamy who's letting out his emotions and frustrations (and I swear there is moisture in his eyes ok).

That word is really used too loosely at this point. I was not pleased about the handcuffing there, he ****ed up with that (which is why I wasn't unhappy about him being zapped after that ) but he was definitely in a bad place and not thinking straight. It was just a very real, painful to watch scene ... but ultimately required and cathartic moment for both of them. Too much was left hanging in the air before that, so it was just amazing to watch them both just let out all those pent-up emotions and feelings that way.

It's really interesting how BC turn the stereotypical male/female dynamics around ... he's the one who doesn't have any issue baring his soul to her, letting her see him cry etc. And that's SO important to show on TV, I feel.

[Damocles]

Yeah when he got zapped I was like 'bro, serves you right. Don't ******* with Clarke' He of all people should know!

But for real - I love how Bellamy is the more sensitive and emotional one, the part usually written for the girl. Stereotypes be gone.

[destroyer of worlds]

Clarke is not to be trifled with.

Again, that is what BC bring to the table if you want to look at this more clinically. Too many times, we see the typical bad boy who needs to appear manly (whatever that means)/macho all the time and "crying is for wusses" mentality and the girl is the one who is always emotional ... that's really not the case when it comes to BC.

[kenni727]

Yet Bellamy really only opens up like that with Clarke. With others he still maintains the gruff and tuff exterior.

Why does he allow himself to be vulnerable with Clarke? Well it kind of snuck up on him without him meaning for it to happen - literally. In Earth Kills he was struggling to kill Atom. He thought he was alone in that moment but then there appears Clarke. She sees what he is unable to do. Rather than sneer or rub it in his face she simply steps up and calmly takes the burden from him. That began a shift in their dynamic but Bellamy still tried to maintain a steely front. Problem was that Clarke continued to let him know she'd seen another side of him. She poked and prodded. Then finally in Day Trip after the hallucinations forced him to face things as he hadn't yet done and their fight with Dax he just laid himself bare. I suspect that ever since Earth Skills there was a part of Bellamy that wanted to let Clarke in. She had shown she could be understanding and trusted. But his upbringing and experience on the Ark with hiding Octavia still had him wary. Slowly Clarke was unwittingly working her way in until Bellamy cracked after a particularly trying day.

I believe this is why her leaving at the end of season 2 hurt Bellamy even more. I've talked before about Clarke having abandonment issues and why it is so significant that Bellamy has remained the one person she can count on. Bellamy didn't have those same issues. There was really no one to abandon him. The loss of his mother and Octavia was a result of his own actions. With Clarke, for the first time in his life, he had opened up and allowed someone else into his circle. And then she left - of her own volition. Ouch.

So Clarke is the one with abandonment issues, and Bellamy becomes the one to blow a hole through those issues and become her rock for her to than create abandonment issues within him. Irony is strong with this one.

[Damocles]

Originally Posted by kenni727 (View Post) Why does he allow himself to be vulnerable with Clarke? Well it kind of snuck up on him without him meaning for it to happen - literally. In Earth Kills he was struggling to kill Atom. He thought he was alone in that moment but then there appears Clarke. She sees what he is unable to do. Rather than sneer or rub it in his face she simply steps up and calmly takes the burden from him. That began a shift in their dynamic but Bellamy still tried to maintain a steely front. Problem was that Clarke continued to let him know she'd seen another side of him. She poked and prodded.

Um, YES. See, at first it annoyed me when she did this. Maybe I didn't believe all the things she was saying about Bellamy then, too. Just like maybe he didn't. Her poking and prodding eventually made me soften up to him and realise that all the stuff she was saying was true. I mean, nobody in his life ever knew him at all or bothered to know him, or even really cared about his existence - apart from his mom or Octavia. Clarke's insistence that there was something good in Bellamy probably broke open something inside him that he didn't even know was in there to be broken open.

I believe this is why her leaving at the end of season 2 hurt Bellamy even more. I've talked before about Clarke having abandonment issues and why it is so significant that Bellamy has remained the one person she can count on. Bellamy didn't have those same issues. There was really no one to abandon him. The loss of his mother and Octavia was a result of his own actions. With Clarke, for the first time in his life, he had opened up and allowed someone else into his circle. And then she left - of her own volition. Ouch. So Clarke is the one with abandonment issues, and Bellamy becomes the one to blow a hole through those issues and become her rock for her to than create abandonment issues within him. Irony is strong with this one.

This is why I hate when people bash Bellamy or his character and just act like he's a dudebro a-hole. This is not the case. And guess what - guys are allowed to be sensitive and have issues and emotions, too. Bellamy had a crappy life growing up and he could have turned out alot worse - but he's also lucky someone like Clarke even bothered to see the good qualities he has and bring those to light. This is why their friendship is so important.

[April7739]

Oh, you guys . . . What can I say except "YAAAASSSSS" to everything you guys are saying?

I mean, I agree with it all, about how important this kind of non-stereotypical relationship is in the TV landscape, about how they defy the stereotypes. With Bellamy in particular . . . oh, how do I put this? I love that the show has done so much to portray women as smart and strong and powerful and capable, as leaders, as warriors . . . it's amazing to see this on screen week in and week out, and the show has gotten a lot of deserved praise and attention for it. But I feel like sometimes male gender stereotypes/roles/expectations are just so much more . . . more RIGID. We live in a day and age where we see much more encouragement for girls to go against the gender norm, but I feel like we don't necessarily see that for men, at least not at the same level, or at least not in my neck of the woods. I mean, "Boys don't cry," is still an unfortunately common mantra for many people, and it's just ridiculous. I think the show deserves all sorts of praise for what it's done with its male characters, too, particularly Bellamy since he's the male lead and he's pretty much become the emotional epicenter of the show. But a character like Lincoln, too . . . he's very peaceful and sensitive, in addition to being more traditionally tough and masculine.

Anyway. Off on a tangent there, perhaps.

[Leelith]

You guys are making some good points.

It is terribly unfair. But we live in a world were girls being typically more "masculine" is approved and looked up to. But males showing emotion and saying that they care (predominantly a female quality) is looked down and said to make them weak. One of the things I love about the show the most is that it takes societal norms and turns them on their side. Showing that you can be Strong and Smart like 'males' but willing to open up about how you feel and sensitive at the same time. Bellamy is a prime example. He is so strong. But the times he is not he is open. And the people on the show do not look down on him for it. They do not go like "Stop acting like a sissy." And Clarke is the same. She is in touch with her feelings but she is also so strong.

[April7739]

Good job, Lee.

I think it just says something (something troubling) about society, too, that a woman demonstrating more so-called "masculine" characteristics is often (not always, but often) praised and encouraged these days, but a man demonstrating more so-called "feminine" characteristics typically isn't encouraged or praised the same way. I mean, by doing that . . . it's like society is subtly saying that masculine traits are the ones we should aspire to have.

Bottom line is, gender is a complex, complicated social construct that is constantly evolving and altering, and there's a lot of progress still to be made on both sidesof the gender coin. I just appreciate that this show is so unapologetically defiant in the face of it's gender portrayals, to the point where going against the grain is almost the norm. (Although I would like to see a leader who is NOT a beautiful young female for a change. I fear that's getting a bit repetitive, and I had such high hopes for Luna to be something different. ) But it's exciting and interesting that Bellamy and Clarke, as a pair AND as individuals, can represent so much in the way of gender subversion. I mean, a lot of the characters can and do, but since Bellamy and Clarke are two of the show's most complex and fleshed-out characters, and since their relationship is so integral and unique, they're just the first ones that come to mind when I think about characters who aren't what you might expect them to be.

[AnaMack]

Wow! You guys are on fire today!!! So many great aspects being analysed so beautifully, you guys rock! I've always admired this show's portrayal of both great female and male characters, and, come to think of it, Bellamy is such an important and impactful character. He's got so many characteristics of your stereotypical tough alpha male and yet he's so emotionally broken and actually breaks down about it... Not only him, but also Jasper and Monty are men who admit to not being fine, to be emotionally struggling, emotionally "weak". I get the point, but that's one of the reasons I feel it's so unfair when people only praise the female characters of this show. It excells in making great characters, regardless of genders. They are themselves, not genders. There aren't female parts and male parts, female roles and male roles. There are these characters and where they fit as people.

And Kenni, you brought up such an accurate analysis of Bellarke, I'm in awe with it.

I absolutely adore this song by Red, it's such a classic! I think the most impactant video I've seen with it, the one that made me memorize the lyrics, was a Nick Jonas/Demi Lovato fanvideo. Truly beautiful. The song makes the 2010 images of emotional support between them all the more meaningful. And, of course, the epic bellarke video to it.

The OP is beautiful, guys you go, Paula!

I can only remember being annoyed by one person on this entire board, really, so, yeah, I might have to investigate on this board's past a little.

ETA
About Bellamy and people, Lisa mentioned this about him not having had anyone else and it reminded me of this video:

I love it when Monty says "he only cares about himself" and then it shows Bellamy caring about and helping out so many people, it's beautiful. Our boy has gone so far from where he first saw him, I'm so proud of him.

[kenni727]

Originally Posted by April7739 (View Post) I think the show deserves all sorts of praise for what it's done with its male characters, too, particularly Bellamy since he's the male lead and he's pretty much become the emotional epicenter of the show.

Some time ago I made the point that Bellamy is the emotional crux of the show and was accused of being biased - which is possible, but I really don’t think so. It goes back to the idea that Clarke is the brain and Bellamy the heart. And reminds of some other ships in which the male side of the ship is the main character and his romantic interest - a female - is the heart of the show.

Women often are the emotional center of a story. Is this a stereotype? Yes. But a stereotype that exists for a reason. Traditionally women are taught and allowed to foster their emotions while men are taught to control them - usually compartmentalizing. There is something to be said for each. Our emotions need to breath, but it’s important to have some control rather than allowing our emotions to rule our lives. A person needs to find a balance. These characters are each working through their emotions in different ways, and it’s fascinating to watch.

What sets Bellamy apart - making him the emotional crux or epicenter - is twofold. First being that he is someone who oozes his emotions even when he’s attempting keep them under control. On the whole I wouldn’t say Clarke is a cold person, but she definitely has the capacity for it. The girl has certainly felt various emotions very keenly. She has also demonstrated an ability to shut out emotion with a cold drive and focus. Bellamy can’t do that. Even when he’s trying to hide what he’s feeling you can tell he’s feeling something - you just may not know what that is.

Second thing that sets Bellamy apart is his connection to multiple characters. He is emotionally invested in individuals rather than simply working to save the whole. I really don’t mean this to be a criticism of Clarke, but she sees their people while Bellamy sees several individuals. I’m not saying that either view is better than the other - just different. The only characters I’ve really felt Clarke to have an emotional connection with aside from Bellamy is her mother, father, and Wells. I know there are those who would argue there was also a connection with Finn and Lexa. But I personally didn’t feel much of any connection in either ship for reasons I won’t go into here.

Point is, Clarke has built up a wall and doesn’t let many people in. I think this is partly just her nature, but also a result of her father’s death, what she perceived as Wells’ betrayal, and being locked in solitary for a year. She doesn’t get too invested emotionally because she must remain focused on the larger goal of saving her people. Having that drive already is what made her susceptible to Lexa’s “love is weakness” malarkey.

But though Bellamy may not have known each of the 100 on a personal basis he felt each loss. I think of his exchange with Clarke in the season one finale:



While I appreciate her positive attitude and desire to buoy Bellamy she’s looking at it as a numbers game, and they’ve come out ahead. Whereas Bellamy is seeing 18 failures, not 82 successes.

Bellamy invests in individuals while Clarke is on a mission for the bigger picture of everyone. Neither is a completely correct way to approach their survival. And this is why they are better together. They balance each other.