fall into your smile

I definitely think they could have been written so much better.

Butterfly85

Yeah, like I said that was my main problem with S6. I just rewatched S6 and I still hate them as much if not more than I did back when it aired. Besides them beating each other up as foreplay, Spike was also happy that he could hit Buffy, got a kick out of saying she came back wrong, calling her a demon, an animal, etc. I also forgot how much Spike would keep trying to come on to Buffy even when she said no or tried to refuse his advances. So it's even more obvious why when Buffy said no and meant it, he tried to rape her. I'm supposed to think this is love? Hell no. I still think it was an obsession for Spike, and for Buffy in S6 she used him to feel something and nothing else but I don't see love in the least. It was extremely abusive and toxic, along with disgusting.

BlackWhiteRose

They were better in Season 7 but yeah Season 6 kinda made it hard for me to ever ship them.
Buffy belonged to Angel IMO but his soul is coursed...too bad.

Crystal Clear

Butterfly85 you have to understand that even though lots of people had issues with certain aspects of how relationships were portrayed, there are an equal amount of people who adored the pairings and they deserve equal respect. For example, the "toxic" way that you view Buffy/Spike is exactly how I viewed Willow/Tara at that point in the show. Willow manipulated Tara's mind in order to keep her, and Tara had actually performed a magic spell on Willow and her friends to stop them from seeing ALL demons just to hide herself from them. It was a dangerous relationship, and I'm not surprised that it ended in tragedy because there was always a witchcraft element involved and they had different views on how to approach magic (remember their contrasting reactions to Dawn's grief over Joyce?)

None of the characters belonged to anyone. Angel will always be in Buffy's heart, but he left so that she could have the best life possible. In fact, Buffy told Angel that she was in love with Spike. That said, we all know that she technically didn't end up with anyone. Spike sacrificed himself, she never loved Riley (at least not in the way he wanted) and Angel had his own show by the end of the high school years. Moreover, Buffy and Spike were certainly portrayed as more than just "pure lust" because let's remember that Spike had been protecting Buffy's sister when she was dead more than anybody else could have done. The bad stuff doesn't outweigh the good.

Also, Season 7 went a LONG way to extending their interactions beyond the mere sex stuff. Sex isn't even a factor in their relationship at that point; like Giles said:

"It doesn't matter that you're not physical with each other anymore - there's a connection. You rely on him, he relies on you."

Season 6 was controversial in a lot of ways (Willow's addiction, Warren killing Katrina and Tara), and I think many viewers missed the point that Buffy HAD to go through all that stuff to learn more about herself and overcome the hurdle of being initially confused about why she was back from the dead. Question the Spuffy sex scenes all you like, but they actually contributed to Buffy's realization that she had been neglecting Dawn and her friends AND Spike's feelings long before her sexual relationship with Spike even began.

Personally, I preferred Season 6 to Season 5. I thought 5 was just as dark in tone as Season 6, the Joyce story-line was a little TOO real, and the relationship with Riley showed how Buffy needed to have a romantic partner who didn't feel threatened by her domineering presence. Maybe that's why her sexual relationship with Spike was something I understood - because he indulged her, knowing it's what she needed at that time, even though he wanted MORE than simply sex.

I always had a hard time watching Willow without Oz in the show, I hated the Willow/Xander fling in S3 (clearly done just to push Cordy out of the show) and I was sad that Giles had to endure a life without Jenny.

I still think that Seasons 1 and 2 were the best.

Butterfly85

For me personally, I feel Spike had no purpose since S4 and in S7 so far he still has no reason to be around. He also comes across as an obsessed Buffy fanboy thinking of any reason to just show up, plus he was insane at the beginning of the season not making any sense whatsoever. I always found it unrealistic no one just staked him, and they just tolerate him being around. I remembered being annoyed with Buffy in S7 keeping her head in the sand about Spike (even in S6 a little, being fine with Dawn staying with Spike after he tried to rape Buffy the day before! WTH? Chip or no chip, that was insane. I did appreciate Xander in those moments) even turning on Giles (her father figure that has always been there for her opposed to a vampire that tried to kill her for years) Even with his soul, Spike was still killing people. Also, every single time Spike thought he chip wasn't working, he couldn't wait to go back to biting and killing people, only to be stopped by the chip. I completely forgot after he hit Buffy and thought his chip stopped working, he tried to bite a girl in an alley. That shows he didn't change and like some others said, the chip gave him no choice. Otherwise, it would be the same old Spike. The only time I kind of liked Spike and Buffy was in early S6 when they seemed to talk and hang out a little, before the dark and twisted sex started.

As for Angel, I was always neutral on his pairing with Buffy. When I did rewatch S2 though, I did find them cuter together then I did in the past. However, just like with Spike they were completely doomed and couldn't have a future together. It just made me feel bad for Angel and Buffy. Sadly, even the mayor was right about their doomed future. I mean, Buffy was a young girl about to graduate and she couldn't step out with Angel except at night. They couldn't sleep together and had to be on pins and needles about any happiness making him lose his soul. Plus, he was immortal and she wasn't. He would of stayed young forever while Buffy aged and eventually died. So I felt Angel did the right thing when he told her he was leaving town and that she deserves a man that can give her more than him. He was right to do that selfless act.

I liked Buffy best with Riley (and I'm glad she could have a normal relationship with him that no one else could give her. You could tell he made her happy and I do believe she loved him) but I do believe Angel was the love of her life and do think she would of ended up with him if many things were different. I just watched "Selfless" and when she reminded Xander she killed Angel and how hard that was for her but she had to, I feel she was right and Xander couldn't say crap then. Rewatching the show, the only couples I like remain the same: Riley/Buffy and Oz/Willow. I also liked Wood and Faith but that was just a ONS unfortunately lol. I would of loved to have seen them as a couple, especially since Faith seemed to be scared of real relationships outside of sex. You could kind of see that when Faith was in Buffy's body and Riley said he loved her/Buffy, Faith freaked out and questioned his motives. I'm sad I'm on the last season, I don't want it to end! I still miss the show. It's been great rewatching the show, much better than I remember. I will probably watch the movie again when I'm done.

BlackWhiteRose

Yeah in Season 2 he was dirtier if you will. He was with Drusilla and I loved it.
Season 6 was dark and the writers wanted it dark...I skip most of the episodes from that season. And for me James Marsters is a great actor and so is Juliet Landau, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Alyson Hannigan, Anthony Stewart Head. They all did their job so well IMO.
Riley was just normal.
So yeah everyone has another point of view of some things from the show. And that´s fine.
Do you read the comic books?

fall into your smile

Season 6 was most definitely a dark season.

Butterfly85

No I never read the comics. After some of the crazy things I heard about the comics, I'm glad I don't. It's hard for me to consider it canon.

BlackWhiteRose

Okay that´s fine. I just read some summaries some where good some were not that good.

Drunk On You

I heard a lot of people don't consider the comics canon.

BlackWhiteRose

Not everyone does and that´s fine.

Butterfly85

I'm probably in the minority but I can't stand Buffy in S7. She comes off as such a snotty b*tch that thinks she is better than everyone else. Buffy also being in extreme denial and obsessing about Spike doesn't help either. She's trying way too hard to convince herself that he changed cause he "has a soul" now (even though he was killing people with that soul, and every time he could go back to killing when he thought the chip wasn't working he did) I remember it all but god it's ridiculous. It just reminds me why I didn't mind that they kicked her out in Empty Places. She had a point and was right about the vineyard, but it was her ATTITUDE. Which she had most of the season. I also couldn't stand the way she kept blowing Giles off and how she treated him over Spike as well. Very insulting she seemed to pick a vampire that tried to kill her for years and almost raped her over her father figure that has always had her back through the good and bad. Buffy didn't even treat Giles this bad after the events of "Helpless" which was worse and I would of completely understood (even though it killed Giles to do that as well and he still came through for Buffy in the end) This is the first time I can't stand Buffy, besides in "When she was bad." Andrew is also very annoying and pointless. Putting that aside, I was also turned off by how the others always treated him. It was also very hypocritical of them to treat Andrew the way they did over killing Jonathan even though they have Spike, Anya, and Willow there who have killed way more people than Andrew and of their own free will. It seems that only Willow was the one to not treat Andrew as bad as the others.

Even though S6 is my least favorite season, S7 has been blah most of this season. I remembered liking it way more back then, now it's just blasé. It should be way more popping than this since it's the end. Even though The First is a scary being, the fact that most of the season it's mostly Buffy, Warren, and Jonathan sucks. Like, who cares? I understand that the actors probably weren't available but it would of been so much better if we saw it turn into more of the Big Bads like we saw in Lessons. That moment was so amazing and now it's just a whimper. Like I said, it turned into Warren the most zzz. I'm glad it turned into Drusilla in one of the episodes, and I remember it being The Mayor when Faith came back. I really wish it would of turned into the Master, Adam, and Glory some more. So most of this season has been disappointing, the strongest episode to me so far was "Conversations with Dead People." I do remember Chosen being a great episode though (obviously) I'm glad I'm almost to the episodes where Faith returns. So even though the last season is lackluster, still sad I'm almost done watching the series. When Buffy was on the WB, it definitely had better seasons than UPN's S6 and 7.

BlackWhiteRose

Man if Season 6 wouldn`t have been so bad IMO I would have shipped Bangel and Spuffy. I`m serious I really would have

Butterfly85

lol I feel sad that I finished the series today, just made me realize how much I miss the show. Chosen is such a great episode. I love the final battle, I love the whole thing right after Buffy tells The First to get out of her face. The battle and musical score is just so powerful. I still love them making all the potential slayers in the world slayers. Buffy's smile at the end before the credits always made me happy, just so genuine and like the weight of the world is finally off her shoulders. She could be happy and have a normal life if she wanted. It was great to watch the whole series again, especially being older (some things I felt the same about, some things I didn't but not a huge difference) I also forgot so much from S1 and 2 so it was great to see those seasons again. Rewatching the series I think my favorite seasons from best to worst are

S3
S2
S1
S4
S5
S7
S6

I was always torn over whether S2 or 3 was my favorite and by a little it's S3 cause of The Mayor, Faith (her decent into evil) episodes like Anne, The Wish, Band Candy, Helpless, Bad Girls, Consequences, and Graduation Day (especially Buffy and Faith's final battle) along with the whole school fighting the mayor. S2 is a close second cause that was such a great season as well. They really found their groove that season. The two parter where Angel and Buffy sleep together, resulting in him losing his soul was so well done. Also great seeing another slayer for the first time (even though Kendra seems to teacher's pet to me, and that's probably why she died so easily) Spike and Drusilla were great villians (again, I think that's what worked for Spike. It's a shame he becomes such a pathetic lapdog after S3. I even loved his one episode in S3 where he comes back) Angel and Buffy had a great final battle but it was heartwrenching when he got his soul back and Buffy had to kill him anyway. It also had a great cliffhanger with Buffy losing everything and she had to leave town. I felt so awful for her. I wish S1 was longer but I love the college try of the whole season. I especially love The Witch and Prophecy Girl.

I always loved S4 but I was surprised to find myself liking it more than S5 (I know I'm in the minority) I liked S4 more than S5 this time around cause S4 isn't as depressing as S5 (and especially 6) is. In S5 Joyce dies (The Body is a great episode but it's too sad for me. It made me cry so much) Buffy was feeling defeated by Glory a lot of the time, Spike's weird obsession with Buffy started, Dawn debuted, I didn't like Glory as much as I did before (and the shape shifting with Ben but having her be a God was a great reveal) and Buffy died (even though The Gift was a great episode as well) The season just had a sad cloud over it, same with S6. As I said with S6 the main and really only thing I liked about it was Willow's addiction to magic then her turning bad at the end to avenge Tara. I also hated Giles leaving, you could feel his absence a lot (but strangely, in S7 his absence wasn't that noticeable before he came back) I hated the other things like Spike and Buffy sleeping together and the lame villains. I appreciate the realness of S6 but it's my least favorite season, that didn't change. I liked S4 more cause I loved Riley/Buffy, it was Oz's last season (Ugh, I wish Oz and Willow would of stayed together. Her relationships with Tara and Kennedy don't even compare to what she had with Oz. Plus, in S6 I felt their relationship had some toxic moments like when Willow wiped Tara's memory and even tried to do it again. Not as toxic as Spuffy but it had potential to go there and I didn't like it) episodes like Hush and Restless were great, I love the episodes where Faith wakes up and switches bodies with Buffy, and I loved Buffy's final battle with Adam. The spell they all did complete with Buffy KICKING ADAM'S ASS was amazing lol. S4 does start off slow cause their in college now but I feel it quickly picks up. I do think that Buffy did feel the best while they were in high school though.

As I recently said about S7, it's not a bad season but it could of been better. It was just there a majority of the time to me outside of a few good episodes like Lessons, Conversations with Dead People, Lies my parents told me, and Chosen. I also found Buffy very unlikable in the middle of the season until when she was kicked out. She was just acting so unreasonable and self righteous to me. Especially her biased obsession with Spike, how she was treating Giles, and calling that one girl that committed suicide dumb and an idiot. That was extremely insensitive. I liked Robin Wood and that he was Nikki's son and tried to avenge her death. I wish his character could of been around longer than one season. I also loved Faith coming back for the final fight. Man I miss this show but I'm glad I own it now. The comics aren't canon to me (from the little I've heard the stories are ridiculous, especially Xander and Dawn having a baby, and I think I heard that Buffy and Willow slept together? WTF!!!) so after Chosen, that's the end to me.

BlackWhiteRose

Mine are a little different:

S3 -> best season for me
S2
S5
S1
S7
S4
S6 -> worst season for me

And I also love Seaosn 2 and 3 equally. Buffy/Angel/Angelus and Spike/Drusilla made Season 2 so great and Season 3 was cool with Faith and the mayor.
I loved Season 5 because of Glory (I´ve met the actress Clare Kramer and she´s such a sweetheart so that made me like Glory.) and Willow/Tara who I loved so much together
Season 4 was hysterical with Spike and the chip I laughed a lot
Season 7 was not bad, Sarah and James did such a great job and there were some great episodes but there were too much potential slayers which runined it a little bit for me.
But the end was nice and Andrew was funny

I looked into one Buffy comicbook but I didn`t buy it. So yeah I can`t really afford them.