misteriosa

The main reason why I don't want to speculate about the possibility of Sawyer/Juliet is the fact that we don't know how much timw will have passed for the Left Behinders. It's been 3 years for the O6, but I think it might be a lot less for Sawyer and the rest. I'd love to be wrong about this one.

I completely agree. My wish is to see a scene similar to the one from season 2 finale when he was heroically carrying uncounscious Kate on his back. That image never fails to amuse me.

I think they like keeping Ben close to Jack and Locke so I don't fear for Sawyer getting conned or outwitted in every single episode. Besides, Sawyer already had enough of Ben's mind****ing in the mini arc and in CD - of course, that was done for the triangle.
The question is can Sawyer have anything interesting to do away from those three characters? I really hope so. Maybe he'll realize Widmore is not such a bad guy and join his side.

A woman can hope. The Sunshine shipper in you understands me.

Hawthorn

That's one of my biggest fears. They could go for it to make the fact that the O6 waited 3 years to attempt to find/help their friends look "less bad". And then of course, there is how such a scenario would downplay the experience and the storylines of the Left-Behinders, in comparison to the mainland characters.
I want the "bad things" everyone keep talking about to have a serious impact on the people on the island - a couple of months of madness isn't going to do that, nor create the background for big, good material to address on a personal level.
Right now I'm optimistic they won't do that, but I'm prepared for anything.
That scene is a hit. Jack can convey "mad anger", but not passion or strong romantic emotions.
Still, the writers keep trying. Some of the highlights of S4 are his little smile picking up Kate's red panties and trying to be the "shy prince charming" so conflicted about his feelings. Probably his limits with being intense in this kind of scenes is one of the reasons why I've never seen on his face his desire for Kate.
I hope you're right. I'm tired to see Sawyer having to look dumb to serve someone's else storyline. One of his recurring scenes in S4 was asking rethorical questions and be suspicious/in disagreement without doing anything about it. That kind of passivity has been annoying.
This seems like a perfect moment to remind you how you could give life to those perfect scenarios writing them down.


Filming update:
“LOST” at School

misteriosa

Jack's face (smile especially) in his romantic scenes is no different to me than his sracastic expressions in scenes with Ben or Locke. But even if he managed to pull off looking like he's in love from time to time, it would still pale too much in comparison with Sawyer. I think the writers prefer writing so called angsty scenes with Jack and Kate these days to create the illusion of romantic/sexual tension.

Extremely.

Sure.

Thanks for that. So they haven't forgotten about Walt. Will they show us Locke visiting all the O6 in this episode because he seems to be spending a lot of time with Abbadon, who BTW is mentioned too often in the spoilers if you ask me.

Hamburgo1001

What do you take away from Lindelof's "Juliet is the Ross Perrot of the quadrangle and Jack and Sawyer will always be responsive to Kate's various advances" comment? The comment makes it seem to me as if Jack and Sawyer will chase Kate's tail until the very end and every time TPTB drag Juliet into this mess, it will only be a plot device to create angst between a various set of triangle characters.

And let's be honest here guys, if there's a Juliet/Sawyer/Kate triangle in the last season of Lost and Kate is all about Sawyer and doesn't give a damn about Jack anymore (in the romantic sense), you will all want Sawyer to end up with Kate so why bother with Suliet? It's only a waste of time and another way to degrade Juliet's character. It's funny how the times have changed though. Just one year ago most Skaters hated the idea of a Suliet relationship because they wanted his love for Kate to remain pure and suddenly everybody seems to welcome a new relationship for him. Gives me the feeling that this is tit for tat because Kate had sex with Jack. I'm speaking in generel terms here because I noticed this movement on various boards ever since the season 4 finale.
This I agree with. Jack always has this slightly evil smile on his face when he looks at his love interests. He even looked that way when he proposed to Kate. Most of the time Jack looks at Kate with annoyance and disrespect and that's why you never get the feeling that she floors him. It's even hard to get the impression that he likes her. Fox is just a very terrible romantic actor.

Hawthorn

I agree. The big problem I have with this is that I've started to consider the possibility Sawyer is there to put the passion in the triangle while they keep Jack and Kate connected and bonded through other things, until we reach the final stage of the story. Afterall, Confidence Man and I Do still get a lot of praise and attention because of those romantic scenes. I would hate if Skate is being used for that, but it's possible.
I'll pretend there is no sarcasm in your reply.
Then I guess you're happy he seems to have been shot.

So far we have only one Locke/Hurley scene to suggest John will be visiting the O6, but if they don't address that in this episode, then when? The title seems to suggest we will find out how he dies.

It's nice to hear Walt is coming back. Not that I'm excited about it, but at least that scene in the finale and their attempts to remind us of his specialness in S4 weren't for nothing. It's also fair to have him know about his father.

misteriosa

Hamburgo1001, if Darlton choose to pair Sawyer up with another woman in the final two seasons, I hope that will be it. No Sawyer and Kate after that, please. It's not a problem for me at this point - I've always thought Jack and Kate would be the end deal so I don't think we'll ever see the end of Jate or some kind of epiphany from Kate when it comes to her feelings for Sawyer. The writing for Skate in season 4 and later part of season 3 was just too disappointing for me and I cannot bring myself to believe they will get a decent story in the next 30-something episodes. But like I said, single Sawyer with an actual storyline is what I'd like best.

Seems is the key word. I don't really care, but seeing his name mentioned so often gives me the feeling that new characters are more important for the Lost plot than the original ones and I don't like that. It's like the Losties are actually lost in their own show.

I know, I just hope we'll hear more about other visits soon.

That's how I feel too.

Hawthorn

I can hope in a change of plans. Afterall, there are several people thinking Kate will resolve her feelings before touching foot on the island again and that seems an utopistic hope to me, as well. Skate wasn't planned, not that big at least, it worked well on screen and it got expanded, probably way more than they originally intended. Maybe if they get lucky again with Sawyer and whoever he could have any romance with in the future, they might explore that route instead of keeping him in his previous position.
It's not a tit for tat, although I can only speak for me. I'm sure there are people who want Suliet only as a temporary fling to see Kate jealous, or to make her get a taste of her own medicine, but that's not my case. I've said several times in this thread that at this point, I don't even have anything against a Jate ending - what I wanted to see developed with Skate isn't going to happen anymore. They won't grow up together, they won't share this big, life-changing experience together and be there for each other during the hardest times. They'll take their own journey separately - what I wanted for my couple is what will be given to Jack and Kate, so if Jack makes up for the wrong he has done, and if he can make Kate happy again (like she was while they were living together), then be it.
I'm not wishing Kate to suffer or be taught a lesson losing Sawyer - but I'm sick to see her finding Sawyer waiting for her whenever she has some attention to give him, and have Sawyer live with the knowledge that he is replaceable - that at this point, he or Jack makes no difference for Kate, because she loves them both.

I don't like the actual Kate. I've been struggling to relate to a woman who can use a man she knows has the strongest kind of feelings for her to feel better about her other beau having dinner with someone else. And since then, I've never been given something to make me feel for her again and get over my problem with her characterization. Most of all, I've never been given anything to believe that she loves Sawyer as much as he loves her - and 30 episodes have aired after I Do. She's not even able to understand him anymore, or sense what's going on with him, which once was one of the main reasons why I loved to see them interact.

Yes, at the end of season 3 I was against Sawyer/Juliet, I saw potential in their interaction but I didn't want anything more than a friendship between them. Why? Because I was still hoping to see Skate written in a certain way. I didn't know they had spent years away, I hadn't seen her behaviour in Eggtown, I didn't know they would never talk about Wayne and Cooper, I hadn't experience the feelings I experienced last season watching them on screen.

If Juliet (or another woman, it hasn't to be Juliet, I'm talking about her because she seems the most likely option right now and I love her character) can make Sawyer happy, and be happy herself with him, find a friend, a lover, a man to be with and that will be there during those years, I would take that over Kate even if she was all over Sawyer. Because Kate would still be too late in showing him the honestly and appreciation for his feelings that his emotions deserved 4 years ago. I have a feeling Kate will end up with the man "circumstances" will led her to - there is nothing of the big romance I was hoping Skate would be.
I cared about the journey to get to the happy ending, not the happy ending itself - while I think many fans only look forward to that.

Amazon11

i read in a past interview where Josh was stating that he wishes Sawyer dies in a "epic Braveheart" death. Do you really think this is true? I believe the writers wouldn't want Josh to say anything so grandiose if it was going to happen!

Amazon11

As for Suliet, I highly doubt that will happen. Sawyer isn't THAT forgivable just yet--she would have shot Kate, no problem in S3. Plus, Sawyer just lost Kate in the explosion, Juliet is depressed over Jack...and now "dark things" are happening on the island. They won't have time dillydallying...I believe they will have the Dharma to contend with.

Amazon11

"Sawyer up with another woman in the final two seasons, I hope that will be it. No Sawyer and Kate after that, please. It's not a problem for me at this point - I've always thought Jack and Kate would be the end deal"

Honestly I think Jack's grand gesture towards the end of the show is his death. If Sawyer died in the end he will totally steal the spotlight (like he did in S4 finale) and he will be the ultimate hero, it will take away from Jack...and everyone knows this is Jack-man's show.

Hamburgo1001

Thanks for explaining your point of view Fran. You are truly an exception then because 99% of the Skaters on FBL who are suddenly rooting for Suliet next season only seem to be tit for tat. They want Skate to be the endgame but at the same time they don't want Sawyer to pine for Kate and stay celibate for 3 years because Kate hooked up with Jack. I saw the same motivation from various posters while browsing the TWOP board a couple of months ago. Comments like "I want Suliet to happen. Who cares if Juliet gets dumped for Kate again. She's a big girl and can take it." were the norm and they were written by people who claim to like both Juliet and Sawyer. During my entire time in this fandom I have only met 3 genuine Suliet shippers. Now that I've met you the count goes up to 4. That pretty much says it all, doesn't it?

To be honest, even if there was an overwhelming support for Suliet by the end of season 5 TPTB would still go back to the Jack/Kate/Sawyer crap because it's Kate's main storyline (Luanne posted an early Lost Mag article on this a couple of months ago on FBL). The triangle is about her feelings for 2 different guys, not about Jack's or Sawyer's feelings for 2 different women and it was always supposed to be a series long arc. That's why they kicked Juliet out of the quadrangle so callously and made her into Jack's worthless rebound last season. If they drag her character back into it only to throw her out again, she's officially Lost's version of Edie Britt. She will be the woman who gets used by the writers when they need to spice up the triangle again and her character does deserve better than this.

I know it's unlikely to hope that Kate will finally make up her mind next season but if the flip flopping continues in season 6 I will be done with her and Skate anyway and won't care anymore. I won't hate her but I'll step far away from her and I'll be angry at TPTB for taking Sawyer's balls away.

Hawthorn

Welcome Amazon11
I don't know if Sawyer will die at the end of the series or before that, but I doubt what Josh was saying there can be taken as a spoiler - if I remember correctly, that interview came out at the beginning of 2007 (so we were in the second part of S3). I think when they have to tell an actor that his character is going to be killed off, it happens at the beginning of the season where they write the death scene, that's what they did with Dominic. Sawyer is still alive after S3 and S4, and I doubt they would tell Josh what the ultimate future of his character is 3 years in advance (because if Sawyer dies, I'm pretty sure it won't be until S6).
I don't know if they'll make Sawyer and Juliet hook up, right now there is really nothing suggesting that. But I don't think it's completely impossible - Juliet is more upset that she is struck on the island maybe for good than depressed about Jack (imo), and Sawyer and Juliet could spend 3-4 years together - rough times, which could bring them closer to each other, or to know each other better.
You have a point with that, but knowing the writers and how much love Damon has for Jack, it's still hard for me to believe that he's going to kill off his "favorite creature".
Maybe the writers see Jack as a character who has been already suffering due to his hero complex and the responsabilities he felt he had to honor, and the "reward" will be finding some real happiness at the end of the series, after he has accomplished whatever mission the island wants him to excute.
I admit it's hard for me to imagine how the end of the series will be and how many characters will make it alive.

Alexandra, I would never wish for Juliet to be used by Sawyer, because the problems I have with Skate have a deep root in those occasions where I felt she was using him, so that's really a behaviour I don't want to see and a storyline that has no appeal to me - if Juliet has to be just a S5 interlude, I've already said that I prefer Sawyer staying away from any romance. I'm not ok with Juliet being dumped for Kate a second time, because to be honest I like her more than Kate right now.

But I can tell you that if Sawyer and Juliet tried to have something and it didn't work, and he acted in a correct way towards her, I wouldn't fault either character, although I would be annoyed at the storyline being introduced only to spice things up next year.
What I didn't like from Jack and Kate has been the way they kept "leading on" Sawyer and Juliet even if they weren't sure of their feelings or felt they loved someone else. Kate shouldn't have continued to sleep with Sawyer if she thought she might've wanted Jack as well, and Jack's "declaration" to Juliet in TOW was completely absurd considering he had just admitted to Kate and himself to love her.
I don't think Sawyer and Juliet would act like that - I think there would be honesty since the beginning, whatever happens between them.

I'm not exactly a Suliet shipper btw - I've just turned into someone who is ok if Sawyer gets an happy ending or some serenity even if it doesn't involve Kate. I wish to Kate to be happy as well because although a big part of my love for her character is gone, it's not like I hate her or anything.
And Juliet - I think a Sawyer in her life wouldn't be bad. Sawyer is capable of great feelings, he can be very protective, a nice change from the coldness, lies or compromises she was used to with her past lovers.
Both Sawyer and Juliet are amazing characters and that's why I give them the "benefit of the doubt" that they could be good together - it's possible that they have no chemistry and the first semi-romantic moment they share will make me change my mind again.

You're probably right that all my dreams mean nothing because the writers will stick to the orginal triangle until the very end, but I'm honest when I say that the thought bugs me so much, that I prefer to find refuge in some wild speculations... at least now that S5 seems to offer some break from the romantic madness.

I don't know who Kate wants (more). Honestly what I've seen so far makes me believe that Jack places higher than Sawyer. And it's not like I'm letting go of Skate because I want to be prepared to "lose" - I've always feared Jate could be the endgame (with the only exception of the one-two weeks after I Do). It's just that I can't bring myselt to emotionally invest in Sawyer and Kate when all they have shared in the past has a question mark on it about its meaning, and when they'll meet again they might be like strangers to each other, with no proper time to re-build the relationship in a believable way (on top of the triangle possibly being still in play).

I don't think I've ever typed longer post than the last two. Sorry about the rants.

Amazon11

Why do so many people think it will end up being Jate? Honestly... I feel like they set up Jack and Kate for Season 5, and then the reunion with Sawyer and Kate in S6. Only because Jate have no chemistry whatsoever, and I KNOW the writers know that.

Honestly, I hope Kate just gets her act together and becomes a strong woman. And stop hanging on to alpha males (her childhood doc, the cop, now jack)

As for Suliet? If Suliet is just going to be an obstacle/time-filler, then its best for them to just stop it and remain BOTH the character's integrity to the story in general. I have a feeling Juliet is going to die anyway, a tragic death...as her name implies.

Hamburgo1001

Juliet's name must have been the biggest mislead ever on Lost. She was named after literature's greatest romantic figure and look what it got her. She was Edmund's duped wife, Goodwin's other woman, Jack's rebound, Ben's obsession and possibly Sawyer's season 5 one night stand or **** buddy. There's so much heartwrenching romance in her story that it moves me to tears. Please, somebody hand me a tissue. I won't rule out that they are going to kill her off but damn, would that be incredibly lame.

Hawthorn

Amazon - I think Jack and Kate have the best chances (more than Skate, right now) to be the endgame couple because from what I've seen so far, it looks to me like no matter what happens to one of the two, anything keeps centering around the other person for both of them. Jack loves Kate and she has become sort of his only constant, Kate might love both men like the writers have said, but it took her 30 seconds to dump Sawyer in Otherville while waited two years for Jack to come to her.
I'm not saying I'm 100% sure Jate is the endgame couple - but Cuse did say their bond is kind of the ultimate relationship, and that is way more than the producers have ever said about Skate.

Alexandra - Juliet was introduced with that role, playing the "obstacle" in the Jack/Kate relationship. She was their second attempt to create a rival for Kate. But now that the mission is accomplished, it's possible she will be given some nice material and some dignity as a character - her popularity could be a big help.