~annie~

Well, I don't think anyone is going to be worried about common sense or how N//B have aged when they see the tape (although, if we see scenes it will be them taped as the characters look now, then that doesn't matter). Its makes sense that people would make snap judgements based on what is going on right in front of them which is that NH have been together for quite some time and there N//B are on a sex tape. Its the easiest conclusion to jump to that its them cheating on Haley.

But I really do agree that there are some things that we need to remember that we don't know. We've heard that Brooke was really drunk and she may think it was a dream, but we have no clue how much Nathan remembers or what his involvement in the tape is.

If the storyline goes on to show Peyton what it was like in Brooke's shoes in S1, then it makes sense that it will also show Brooke what it was like being in Peyton's shoes with everyone painting her as a bad guy. If that's how it plays out, then yeah, it will be leveling the field between them, putting them in each others' shoes.

catc20

I think Susan and most people's problem with this storyline is that there was NO POINT in having to involve Nathan and Haley and they did, There are other ways to make Brooke look like a traitor. but Mark decided to rewrite history and Haley being hurt and humiliated doesn't even enter Mark's conscience which is pretty damn sad.

It's all completely unneccessary and there is no point to the storyline seeing as Derek's reappearence is what will really rebond PB. It's all lame pull out of his ass shock value writing and it's makes me even more ashamed of this show.

how forever feels

Well, separately, yes, this would affect Peyton's relationship with either Brooke or Nathan, and Lucas's relationship with either Brooke or Nathan. However, this isn't going to affect conjointly Lucas and Peyton, seeing as how they're not directly involved, and there will not be any forms of betrayal between them, concerning this tape.

Indian Summer

How else would they put Peyton in Brooke's shoes, though? Nathan was Peyton's only other long term, serious boyfriend, and obviously Brooke couldn't have cheated with Lucas on Peyton. Nathan's necessary to the storyline.

No offense, but Haley's a fictional character. I get that you guys are upset and it's totally understandable, but saying the emotions of a fictional character should nag the writer's conscience is sort of crazy. Haley is his creation, and therefore, he owns her. The fans don't. It's kind of like barbies in the sense that he's the puppetmaster playing with them. There's no way around that, and at the end of the day, she's not a real person. Naley isn't a real relationship.

You also can't say that Derek's relationship with reunite Peyton & Brooke alone. How do you know at this point that the sex tape isn't an integral part to get that process moving?

As for it not affecting Leyton, we can't really know that at this point. It may not immediately, but realize Lucas still doesn't know the reason behind the destruction of the Peyton/Brooke friendship, and Peyton punching Brooke is sure to make him curious. In addition, he'll have to examine why she punched Brooke if she's moved on and she's happy now.

catc20

There wouldn't be a character to own if not for us, the fans of this show. The online community alone is the reason we even have a 4th season.

Also, from what I know the tape IS NOT integral at all. The Derek crap is completely seperate.

And Brooke could have slept with Jake or just betrayed Peyton in a way without a guy. I mean since Mark is rewriting history anyway why not make it so Brooke just came on to Nathan, that's betrayal in itself and it wouldn't throw Nathan and Haley in the middle of it. Or have Brooke spread some malicious rumor and be the reason NP broke up one of those 100 times. It doesn't take a genius to see this could have been done way different.

In fact it shouldn't even be done because it makes Brooke look like a complete hypocrite no matter how you slice it and taints the BH friendship forever too. It's all crap.

ETA: Lucas is well aware why Peyton punches Brooke. Peyton is pissed that Brooke made her feel such guilt over the years. Peyton has moved on def from Nathan but she hasn't from what all went down with Brooke.

SophiaBushFan

Maybe since Brooke never mentioned what happened, Nathan just figured she didn't want anyone to know. He most likely has no idea that Brooke really doesn't remember it happening. And with how close Brooke and Haley have been the past few seasons he wouldn't want to do anything to ruin their friendship. Haley never really seemed to have any other friends besides Brooke, Peyton, and Lucas and she and Brooke have seemed the closest...although that seems to be changing now (which is pissing me off by the way lol).

Indian Summer

I'm aware the Derek crap is completely separate. What I'm getting at, though, is that I doubt the reunion is just going to be the result of one thing, as opposed to a conglomeration of different factors.

Brooke sleeping with Jake wouldn't have worked, nor made sense. His relationship with Peyton had barely started before it ended, and it would've been incredibly OOC for Jake to cheat, whereas it wasn't for Nathan. This doesn't put nearly as big of a taint on the Naley relationship as you guys seem to think. This is still before Nathan even knew Haley, and it's not like she didn't know what she was marrying. Sure, it sucks to have to see it, but it sucked that he put her in a position that almost killed her, and she sure got over that in a hurry.

~annie~

No, he won't. Because he's Mark's creation and if he doesn't want Luke to do that, then he doesn't have to.

Using the these are all just fictional characters thing is kind of a cop out. It makes everything we discuss pointless if the answer is always just that Mark can make them do whatever he wants them to.

And anyway, to Mark, they are real people. He hears their conversations in his head.

The OTH world may not revolve around Haley, but history has shown that her feelings get sacrificed and cut off for the sake of everyone else's stories. EX: S2 or this past ep. What may seem like an over reaction to people who don't watch for Haley is really just frustration about the fact that something like this should be a big deal to a woman, but will probably not get a satisfying conclusion (as history implies), especially since there are so many other relationships that are effected and they all have to be dealt with plus psycho!Derek in two episodes.

broken crown

Exactly.

It's going to affect all those relationships you listed, Summer, a bit differently than it's going to affect NH. Because it happened in the past and it's obvious everyone else has a very different present. On the other hand, Haley has to see her husband screw one of her best friends in surround sound while pregnant with his kid.

Everyone else might be able to get over it, but Haley is going to have a hard time getting over it because that visual just won't go away. Factor in the idea that Nathan knew about it all along and his latest speech that indicated he was going to start "letting her in" and be truthful and you got alot of potential strain on a marriage that's already handled so much already. It's almost like...when will it stop? Will Haley be able to get that image out of her mind? Probably not.

At least not in the same time frame the other relationships will have. Nathan's past affects Haley's present and future. None of the other relationships on the show will be affected as badly. Peyton and Nathan were broken up, so it wasn't cheating. Lucas and Nathan despised each other then, so they'll get over it. Brooke and Peyton will figure out they were both fools for letting a boy come between their friendship and get over it.

The big two main relationships it really truly affects are NH and BH and the common denominator there is Haley. Sure, she didn't know either of them back then, but she knows them now...and if Nathan knew this all along and didn't say anything, that's going to hurt her a great deal. Plus, the mental image of her husband screwing Brooke over and over again will probably haunt her for the rest of her life. There's not going to be getting over that anytime soon...and it's not like she can go very far to get away from it because she's having his baby. Then, you have the whole BH mess. Haley can't really blame Brooke for not telling her especially if she doesn't remember, but how is Haley supposed to be able to LOOK at Brooke after this. It's going to take ALOT on Haley's part...and frankly, it's unfair that she has to do so on everybody's else time table (because you know once everyone else gets over it...they'll be expecting her to fall in line as well).

how forever feels

Remember now, Lucas's best friend is Haley. I'm sure his first thought will either be, "Nathan cheated on Haley or Nathan cheated on Peyton." If it's the first string of thought, he'll assume Peyton's trying to defend Haley; and if it's the second one, he'll assume she's demonstrating her anger for Brooke taking part in cheating on her. Immediately, when the tape begins, Nathan isn't going to shout out, "We were on a break!" So of course, either Haley or Peyton will assume he was cheating. Now, Lucas has never asked why Brooke or Peyton ended their friendship, even in 4.08 he made a sign on acknowledging this. I don't think the writers are interested in showing Lucas's feelings on the ended friendship. I'm pretty sure the reconciliation will have to be something not involving Lucas, that's been made evident, as much I don't want to see it occur. So, no, this won't conjointly affect Lucas and Peyton.

catc20

Please don't tell us Naley's how to feel. You can express your opinion, but don't patronize why we feel it. And you act like we weren't up in arms over the crash, we were you just weren't around on this board then.

And how is it that it would be OOC for Jake but not for Brooke? Sure Brooke got around but after 3 years or berating Peyton and Lucas for betrayal it sure seems OOC for her as well.

bbg85

So because NH are married their relationship is some how more important? I know marriage is extremely important but just because the other character aren't married doesn't mean they won't be just as hurt and affected by this. I know you're a Nathan and Haley fan, and that's probably the main reason you watch, I understand that, we all have our favorites- the reason we watch. I watch for LP, and as much as I love them I'm not niave or presumptious enough to believe that their's is or should be the most important relationship on the show even if it is the only one I care about. The fact remains NB sex will affect the core 5, albeit in different ways, but it will affect them all not just NH.

broken crown

I always thought Jake was kind of a ladies man before he had Jenny and that's what he was talking about when he mentioned "different experience levels" in the time capsule.

rose parade

OH, God. That was one of the funniest things he's ever said.

And I agree about Haley not getting the image out of her head. Did anyone ever see the movie High Fidelity with John Cusack?

And I just think it's so weird that NH are married and this happened in his past, but he was only like...15. That's just weird. It sucks for Haley that she has to see it, It sucks that Nathan never told her, but I don't think I can blame Nathan for the actual sex aspect.

Indian Summer

Hah, Annie, you totally made Mark sound schizophrenic there.

Susan... explain to me how this is going to affect Brooke/Haley more than Brooke/Peyton. I'm really confused as to that. In addition, this is all your speculation. We don't have any confirmation that this is something that's going to live on and on inside Haley's head. As I've already pointed out, she's already seen and learned much worse. And honestly, I'd rather have the mental image of my boyfriend/husband having sex with another girl in my head than the mental image of the headlights of the oncoming car that never would've been aiming for me if it wasn't for my husband, and his admission of guilt there.

I really, really don't see how it's unfair for Haley to have to deal with this. She didn't think she married a saint, and it wasn't like Nathan kept his cheating on Peyton a secret. Haley was incredibly naive to assume Nathan wasn't a cheating manwhore, if that's the case, and she knew Brooke was ****ty in the past.

Not only that, but you guys are acting like Haley sits there watching them go at it, when we don't know if that's the case. For all we know, she never sees them. It could be she's not watching the TV and she only hears a moan, or that before the image has a chance to burn into her brain someone turns the television off.

It's incredibly melodramatic to always expect the worst case scenario, especially when the writers of this show are fairly predictable. Like always, they'll find a way to weasel out of serious repercussions for this. If Haley can get over her husband practically sentencing her to death with the flash of a ring and a cheesy catchphrase, she can get over this.

----

I'm perfectly aware that this is out of character for Brooke, but I've given up on expecting her to be in character this season. I don't know why it should be expected at this point, though, lol. My point was simply that if the choices are Nathan and Jake, one makes a lot more logistical and logical sense than the other. First of all, Bryan's not around to film the scenes, and second, Nathan's the notorious cheater during that time.