northboundtrain

Thank you!!


I did notice. I'm glad that not all of the Mutiny customers will be one-off characters, but characters we might see over the course of several episodes.


Oh, I agree -- Joe/Gordon have a very "the highs are highs and the lows are LOW" dynamic. Like, when they reverse engineered the IBM PC together in Gordon's garage, that was pretty magical, and an example of the two of them working together to do something great. But then in so many other scenes, their tempers/egos end up clashing.

Donna is very mature and level-headed, and Cameron benefits from working with that kind of personality.


I wonder if Cameron will believe him when he says he didn't know, or if she'll accuse him of using her.

Obviously, it'd be nice if she believed him, not just for the sake of their relationship, but because it would show how both have changed since she rejected him in 110.


That's a good thought. On Wikipedia (I know, not the best source...but...), it said that CTE can only be definitively diagnosed after the person has died. No idea if that's true, but if it is, then there's no way anyone can know for 100% sure what's happening to Gordon.

I just hope it's the drugs and not either CTE or some other horrible disorder.


I'm going to miss Debbie. I wonder where she ended up after Cardiff was sold?


You know, this is a really good point, and I hope it's something they touch on.

If they don't, though, I guess we're meant to take it as Donna in a take-the-bad-with-the-good situation -- Mutiny is chaotic and loud and gross and full of boys fighting and making stupid and inappropriate sex jokes, but from the scripts it does seem like Donna's making an intellectual contribution that she's excited about.

But, yeah, while the scene was interesting to watch, that kind of atmosphere could get old fast, which is why I'm glad we know Bosworth is coming in soon (Donna may not be thrilled at first, but at least he'll be another adult), and things might also quiet down once Cameron runs out of money and some of the coders bail.


I think Joe's meant to feel sort of directionless this season, the same as Gordon (almost like they're "paying" now for their decision regarding the Giant). I don't mind because it offers a contrast to S1, where he and Gordon both had direction.


I don't think that's the entire Act 1, though -- I just went back and looked at the 201 scripts, and Gordon's TV interview is on pg. 3, and Donna's watching him and this is how she's described: "ANGLE ON DONNA CLARK behind the camera, looking very
different from when we last saw her. No more TI business attire--she’s sans makeup, hair in a ponytail, jeans" -- that's the way we see her at Mutiny. Then during Gordon's interview, she runs out because she's late...she must be running to Mutiny (the script involving that scene starts on pg. 9).

So there's still time before the Mutiny stuff for them to make it clear that time has passed.


I'm excited too...it's a great spot for a promo. I just went back and looked at the first S1 trailer, and it was released around this time last year...if they follow that trend, then the trailer tonight will be about 30 seconds of footage exclusively from the first episode, not from the rest of the season, but that's more than enough for me.


I think that might be a consequence of the show's focus on the computer industry, though -- I mean, these characters are all incredibly dysfunctional, but the fact that they're working with software and hardware means that there's not a lot of room for The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones-style death unless it's from natural causes or an accident. It's more likely that when characters exit they just leave town and/or for other jobs.

Though maybe that'll change with S2. (As long as they don't touch the core five!)

parisredbeatrice

Wow, I really think you're spot on with this observation. There are again parallels with Joe and Gordon. Joe first wants to go to California, then stays in Dallas and then wants to got to California again, but he still doesn't know what he'll do there.
He still needs to find his place and it's neither at a big company like Westgroup nor at a chaotic startup like Mutiny.

parisredbeatrice

I also think Donna will find out about Gordon cheating on her in the next episode. She is happy to see him at Mutiny's party and even tells him there is only one Gordon Clark.
209 will be again some big confrontation between Donna/Gordon and Cameron/Joe.

I kind of hope Tom will have some boyish James McAvoy charm. I love James McAvoy. Just some random stuff .

northboundtrain

The official press release also ties Joe/Gordon/Bosworth together:

So I think we'll see parallels with their journeys to contrast with Donna/Cameron, who have a direction and are taking it to the limit.


That's a really good guess -- I bet you're right.


Aw, I love James McAvoy!

princessofpower

I would love if Joe & Boz worked on something together again. They seem like an odd pair and got off to a rocky start, but I can see them being allies eventually. I always thought it was Boz who ordered the cops to beat up Joe--to show him a lesson who is the real boss. Didn't Boz know the cop(s) that beat him up when he came to get Joe at the police station? I like that Boz is getting some depth, that he isn't just some "good ol boy" and more like an unexpected hero on this show. It's interesting that among non-fans of the show, there are a lot of people who find the three lead characters (Joe/Cam/Gordon) annoying or unlikeable. The characters that ARE likeable or interesting to them were Donna and Boz. I can see why they would think that.

Both Cameron and Joe wear "masks" I think. Gordon said it in the 2nd episode--no one really knows anything about her. Same can be said of Joe, although we did get his Dad and former IBM boss who shed some light onto Joe's background. Cameron and Joe in many cases mirror each other, though Cameron's less sociopathic! lol I hold out hope that Cam & Joe are the ones who head out to California together, just like she initially suggested.

btw, I find that it's hard for me to really embrace any new cast members on the shows that I love. I tend to be loyal to original cast members and see the show as THEIR story arcs, so not gonna get invested too much in Tom or Sara. I hope they are expendable. lol

If Gordon is really sick, I am sure Donna will find a way to forgive him for cheating in the end.

Oh, randomly, I cannot wait to hear what songs they have selected for Season Two. The music has been fantastic so far!

princessofpower

So there was a very very short teaser to HACF tonight on The Walking Dead. Like 10 seconds long.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/IrQbLvpgZ6g

Lee looks good. Mackenzie and Kerry too. Hardly saw Scoot in it.

northboundtrain

I agree, I think they understand each other.


He did know the cops, but when it comes to who arranged the beat-down, I think it was left ambiguous...I've seen speculation that Bosworth (or Nathan Cardiff) was the one to set it up, and I've also seen speculation that it was Lulu's revenge. I could see it going either way.

Whether Bosworth arranged for the beat-down or not, I think the main thing we were meant to take away from it was that Bosworth got to the station and didn't care that the cops had beat Joe bloody. That's what makes his defense of Joe at the strip bar all the more satisfying.


I agree -- in the first part of the pilot, it looked like he was going to be just a Texan suit Joe would have to fight against, but by the end of the episode he started looking more sympathetic (with his speech to Joe before IBM arrived), and then he became increasingly layered as S1 went on -- his relationship with Cameron, in particular, was one thing I don't think any of us saw coming when we first watched the pilot.


I can understand it, too...part of the reason, I think, is because Joe/Cam/Gordon are all pretty dysfunctional, which apparently turns some viewers off. They're also the three characters who made the most mistakes during S1, which gave their detractors ammunition.

Donna/Bosworth, on the other hand, are far more mature/level-headed in the face of the others' crazy, which garners them more support.


I was disappointed that it was so short, but that's just because I got my hopes up that this was going to be the first full promo, when in fact it's just a teaser.

But as far as teasers go, it's good -- we got to see the core four together (though Bosworth is missed), and it's energetic and interesting in its simplicity...I can see someone being intrigued enough to want to check it out.

SM gets the honor of throwing the computer at the very end of the promo, but it's hard to see because it goes by so quickly. I'm glad he's got the beard back.

princessofpower

Yeah, it was good to see the core four together and none of the new people. I found it quite interesting that they made Mackenzie/Cameron the 'star' of the teaser, when all through Season 1 it was being promoted as Lee Pace being the star. I guess maybe AMC is getting the hint that it was a mistake to promote Joe MacMillian as a Don Draper type (especially since some feedback online has been he's a poor imitation of it.) I personally think Joe is more a non-homicidal version of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho than Don Draper!

At least it gives us a sense that the marketing for Season Two will be different. That it will be more focused on the female leads this time. Last season felt like it was very much focused on Joe and Gordon, especially the first two eps. Crossing fingers that they come up with the right balance to attract a bigger base of fans.

And yeah, you're right about how Boz and Donna made fewer mistakes. . .but I am surprised that no one really looked at Donna negatively for almost having an affair with her boss. It was sort of like Gordon had it coming to him. What I like about this show is that all of them are slightly screwed up in their own ways, which makes things interesting.

parisredbeatrice

Thanks for the link. It looks good. I'm glad it's only the 4 main characters.

parisredbeatrice

I watched the "inside the episode" clips for every episode and this is also what the writers said. They wear masks for the world. Cameron was never a punk and this becomes apparent in 102 when she's still isolated at the party in the hotel.
They also said Joe sees a lot of him in Cameron and both know they shouldn't have sex in the premiere, but they can't resist each other.
Maybe in the series finale they might head out together to California . For now I want them to stay in Dallas with Donna and Gordon. I'd like them to explore more of the friendship between the 2 couples. This might be a friendship for life.

Also I think too Bosworth arranged the cops to beat up Joe and Joe knew it was Bosworth.

Me too, I never care about new faces (although I love Quinn now on Homeland ). The whole show feels different and I always want the old version back.
I think Tom and Sara are only there for this season. The whole season is about Joe and Cameron moving in different directions, only to find the way back to each other. They are both a bit in denial, I think now too that Cameron believes she is over Joe.
In season 1 they wrapped up the storylines pretty much and set up season 2. So I think this will be the same case again.

I think she will. There will be a fight, but she would be quite a hypocrite if she doesn't forgive him. She almost cheated on him too last season for the same reasons.

The hate for Joe, Cameron and Gordon was always too much. There is no drama if they aren't dysfunctional and I don't mind them being *******s. It was pretty clear from the beginning this is a show where the characters will evolve and become more likable in the end. We are supposed to root for them in the end.
I found it interesting how many people cheered for Donna in 104 when she smacked down Cameron. Cameron reacted to her that way, because Donna alluded she only got the job because of her sleeping with Joe and she was a bit condescending. Also she was professionally jealous of her because she was a part of the Giant team and she wanted to be part of it too. Yes, Cameron was abrasive, but she just lost all her work and was devastated. People don't give her a lot of slack.
I love all the main characters, but I thought Donna was a bit stupid because she fell for Hunt's scheme and told him so much about the Giant.
It's a bit stupid, but when people cheer too much for one character, it make me dislike a character a bit as if it's the characters' fault .

His relationship with Cam was one of the most beautiful things last season. He saw that she only was a scared kid. Gordon and Joe were horrible to her and Boz took her under his wings. I like when in the premiere the 3 of them are sitting in the meeting room and Boz talks to them an he pushes the chair. Only Cameron is startled and it was very telling for her character. She was in way over her head in Cardiff and Joe should have have taken care more of her. She was still just a kid, pretending to be self-assured.
I feel like both Donna and Boz saw her for what she really is in season 1.

Forwood4Bamon

I have to get to know the characters.

northboundtrain

I can understand why they're doing it -- when I looked around at online viewer response to the S1 finale, it seemed there were a lot of people calling for a reboot of the show starring Mutiny, with Donna/Cameron as the main characters, and Joe/Gordon either gone or having greatly diminished roles in comparison.

So AMC seems to be playing into that interest:
1. The press release comes right out and says that S2 centers on Mutiny, and Donna and Cameron's names are prominent; the press release mentions Joe, Gordon, Bosworth second, but all as a group, with no individual story details about what exactly they're going to be doing.
2. The first look clip is all Mutiny/Donna/Cameron.
3. Cameron is unquestionably the star of the new teaser.

So is this false advertising, or is S2 going to be primarily about Mutiny? If the script snippets we've seen so far are any indication, Mutiny's going to have a huge focus, but Joe and Gordon's stories still feel pretty prominent.


Agreed. I love all of the characters and I want them to have equal story opportunities. I really didn't have too much of a problem with the overall balance of S1, but I like all of the characters. I'm interested in Mutiny, but I'm also interested in what the guys are doing.

I'd have to go back and look, but my impression at the time was that 109 was the best reviewed episode of the season, and in that episode all of the characters were working together.


I think you hit the nail on the head that Donna didn't get much criticism because, overall, fans viewed her more favorably than they viewed Gordon.


That's a really great point about Bosworth and Donna seeing/understanding Cameron for what she really is (and I love your observation about her reaction to the chair), unlike Joe/Gordon.


Do you mean the main characters, or the new ones?

parisredbeatrice

I just think Cameron and Mutiny will be the driving force for season 2. Even the network Joe builds at Westgroup is linked to Mutiny. The guys don't have a coherent storyline on the business side. Their storyline might be about them deluding themselves. Gordon with his cocaine addiction (I think this will be a big issue linked to CTE) and Joe with Sara. The season is leading the girls to "almost" or losing their company and the boys waking up and facing reality.

I also think the producers are fully aware that it's only a matter of time until Mackenzie Davis blows up. She has 4 movies coming out and seems to be considered for a lot of major roles. The cast list for episode SETI is sorted by IMDBStarmeter and Mack is on the 2nd place after Lee Pace.

Yes, it was the best reviewed episode. People loved it. It was also the best episode IMO, because the characters kind of came into their own. Joe and Cameron let their masks slip and Gordon and Donna find the spark again. Well, until everything exploded in their face.

I like Donna and the producers said they made her flawed too, but her flaws were smaller in comparison to the others. But a show with only characters like Donna would be a bit boring and there wouldn't be any potential for drama.
I liked how she was kind to Cameron at the end of 104 and how she complimented her. Someone wrote on the internet, Cameron needs a mother and Donna saw that. She is too young for mothering her, but could pass as a big sister.

parisredbeatrice

I really think now there is no other way than Joe helping Cameron against Westgroup. He would be a complete ******* if he just leaves for California.
He was the one who build the network and rented it to Mutiny. He possibly made the stealth possible. In his heart he is with Cameron, Gordon and Donna, not the Wheelers. It's time for him to realize that.

Next weekend is Easter, I don't know if they are shooting on Monday? Is this a normal workday in the US?

Also, Nick Pupo said in his interview that he is 8 episodes. I wonder what will happen in 209, if there won't be any coders. Can they protect Mutiny somehow?
I think and hope it will be similar to 109 when they all worked together. Gordon will be part of this too and then their personal issues will blow up. Time to clear some air.

I hope someone makes again a mistake with the sides .

princessofpower

I think they might get a shortened shooting schedule this week.

I can see Joe sabotoging Westgroup this time to help the Mutiny gang, especially Cameron. Maybe Sara gets on a plane to California and we expect Joe to join her . . but he stays behind? Another full circle deal. Choosing love over work this time.

My take is that the showrunners/writing team are trying to make sure everything is wrapped up nicely for SEASON TWO with no loose ends--just like they did with Season One, which could have been stand alone---IN CASE AMC cancels the show after two seasons. That way fans won't be left hanging. . And if they get picked up for Season Three, they can again map out the season storyarc and how it fits with the overall theme of the show.

My hope is by the end of this season that all four leads will be working on something together. 109 was the best ep of the show, and it was because they make a great dysfunctional team. Two couples who did great things together. Sort of like the ABBA of 80s technology