Forwood4Bamon

wow. sounds like a lot of new characters.

northboundtrain

Before I dive into all the posts I missed (again! ), a quick heads-up to everyone that Christopher Cantwell hinted in a tweet earlier today that there will be a new HACF promo airing during tonight's The Walking Dead. He specifically mentioned Joe, Cameron, Donna, and Gordon, so I guess there'll be at least brief clips of all of them.

I don't watch TWD, but I'm going to keep my tv on it tonight. I wonder if the promotional campaign for S2 will use another '80s song (like the promos for S1 used "Sweet Dreams").


Thoughts on the new Donna/Cameron clip: Mutiny is basically just as I pictured. The best thing about the clip was seeing so much of what we've discussed here coming to life -- not just the scenes/dialogue, but the beginning of story threads, like YoYo being dissatisfied with the work they're doing.

So far, Arki is my favorite coder based just on his reaction to the plastic figurine in the microwave.

Also, you guys remember how I made a big deal about Cameron's conversation about the android sorcerer and how I thought it might be an allusion to Joe? In the script, it seemed like that conversation was going to stand out a lot more than it did, but in the clip, it just seemed like a way to keep Cameron busy talking on the phone, and her line about the sorcerer's "cunning" was practically drowned out by the background noise at Mutiny.

So if it's an allusion to Joe, it might be one that a lot of people miss. I'm curious to see if any of the reviewers mention it.


Yeah, something about the conversation seems disjointed -- like Gordon's mind is going in and out of the conversation, or like he's babbling and not paying attention to what he's saying. Sort of like people with severe memory issues who mention something and then when you ask them about it they forget they were the ones who brought it up.

As you guys know, I'm completely fascinated by the Joe/Gordon dynamic and the idea that Gordon might be lost now without Joe, so I can't wait to see what's going on with this scene.


Thank you for posting all of these. I agree with you guys this Joe/Sara sex scene seems to call to mind Joe/Cameron's previous encounters -- and, yeah, the fact that they're on drugs makes the whole thing seem even more like a facade...like it's not really their relationship.

It's interesting that in 109 we had Hunt steal the Giant, and now in 208, almost one full season later, we have Wheeler stealing Mutiny (another echo of Cameron's line to Joe in the pilot about the industry ripping off each other's "boring-ass" ideas). Last time, Joe destroyed Hunt by taking the heart out of the Giant, which destroyed Cameron. This time, what will he do? He'll have to have a different reaction so it doesn't feel too much like last season.


I have to admit, the Mutiny party with everyone from the community meeting feels like it has the potential to be a little cheesy. But I have a lot of faith in the show, so I'm sure it won't really feel that way when it makes it to air.

Interesting that Cameron says that "everyone's" mad at her -- for the same reason Tom is (because Joe told her not to sell and she listened)? Or are there other individual reasons people like Donna and the coders might be pissed? And I also want to know what's going on with Cameron/Tom apparently disagreeing over the copy-protecting of the game she's building.

I think the Joe/Gordon scene must be a continuation of the scene in the "Young Man" script, where Gordon meets Joe to give him the plans.

Poor Gordon. But I like that he's actually got a project...I wonder if Clark Computers (with the gang all involved in some capacity) will be a feature of a potential S3?

You know, I looked up the side effects of cocaine, and paranoia can be one of them. What if he believes he has CTE because of that paranoia (like he read about it some place, or met someone who has it, and the drugs made him convince himself that he does)? Does that sound plausible to anyone else?


Yeah, I read the "honeymoon" line a few times, but I can't be sure if he means they were scouting out the honeymoon or if they spent their honeymoon scouting out possible places to live in California.

Though right now I'm leaning against the idea that they got married because wasn't it just in the previous episode that they were preparing to tell Wheeler the wedding was off? Time is supposed to move slowly this season, so it's hard for me to believe that in between 207 and 208 they got married and had the honeymoon (though I guess it's possible).

The writer did a good job of making Jesse's speech at the end sound like Joe's speech in the pilot about why he chose Cardiff.

I wonder who Jules is (the person Gordon thinks is calling him on the phone)?

It's good that Lev is already back.


So it seems like Mutiny has grown from a game-focused network to more of a discussion board system? Because when Cameron announces the game, the script makes a point of noting that there are very few people in the crowd interested in that. I wonder if there's going to be any tension at Mutiny regarding the company's focus/direction (games versus discussion forums)?

Okay...the proposal is definitely cheesy. But it's just one moment in the episode, so I'm overlooking it.


I wonder if it has to do with the background of the actor they cast? Wasn't there an interview with NP you found sometime ago where he mentioned his background and how it wasn't the same as his character's?


Welcome to the thread!!


Well, Boz was at Lulu's when Joe kissed Travis -- of course, he didn't see it, but he may have put two and two together afterward (or Lulu may have told him) -- and he also didn't seem surprised at all that the cops beat Joe up in the next episode. So I think he knows Joe is bisexual even if they haven't talked about it.


Yeah, I realized when I was reading the Gretchen script that someone must have messed up, because there was no reason to give away so many pages for such a small character. I'm glad you grabbed the scripts before they realized what they did.

parisredbeatrice

Thanks for the info. I guess they might show Joe at the dinner party in the beginning.
I'm glad you read the sides. I couldn't wait for your input .

I know, it so interesting how the scenes play out. A lot depends on the actors and the director. You could imagine it would be chaotic based on the sides, but the whole scene also appeared very youthful and fun. There is lightheartedness, which will be missed at Westgroup IMO.

I know, I was a bit disappointed. I hoped it would have more meaning.
But did you realize it was Chet Jenson who was calling? I can't wait for Chet.

He seems a bit lost during conversations. Like he isn't following.

I like how Cameron/Donna seem to work much better together than Joe/Gordon. It kind of feels healthier than Joe and Gordon.


They are constantly reminding us about Cameron and I really think it's the first and only sex scene with them and they don't even have sex. They only pull on each other clothes before they get interrupted. It's really like Joe needed this extra kick additional to the drugs.
I checked wikipedia about MDMA and this bit is interesting:

This is exactly what they are showing in the limo and later again at Westgroup.
This quite emphasizes that their relationship isn't real and they are both deluding themselves. I know we didn't get all their scenes in the sides, but we got a few of time and there is no showing affection like hugging or kissing. I mean when a couple is in love there is laughter and they are enjoying each other's company, I don't see this with them.
In 208 they didn't seem even in love. And they are also taking 2 pills each. Also Sara tells him "this really turns you on?" like they never had real passion before. With Cameron he didn't need any drugs and they were hot for each other already in the premiere.
Also it stresses again, how similar Cameron and Joe are. She was turned on by the Giant in 107, just like him.
Last season he needed to be visionary and someone who mattered and he hold on to this persona until the finale. This season he doesn't want the new persona to fail (having someone, being in a relationship) and he does too much against his own wishes. He'd love to stay at Westgroup and be the big idea guy. He is adapting too much to Sara's lifestyle. I think the limo, the club and the house in California are more style. And he isn't doing this for her, it's just him not wanting to be a failure again.
I kind of like that everything is leading to him choosing Cameron and to stop being this fake persona again.
Sara doesn't like that he is regressing to old Joe in 207, but this is a big part of him, only he isn't Machiavallian anymore. He evolved nicely there. There is no deep connection between them if she doesn't sees him or accepts him for what he is. They needed Sara for this season, because Cameron brings out the real Joe and they needed someone where Joe is deluding himself. In the end it will be again Cameron who brings back the real Joe.
I think at the end of the season it will be pretty apparent how much Joe loves Cameron, because he needed someone to substitute her and he couldn't in the end. I wonder if it will be adressed why he didn't go back to fight for Cameron. Maybe it's still him not wanting to be vulnerable, but in the end he has to risk it.
Also Cameron giving up a nice, happy, relationship to be again with Joe shows her love for him.

I think this is his wakeup call. The Wheelers aren't good for him and he will be on Cameron's side this time. I think he might fear that Cameron would think he betrayed her again, because he told her not to sell and then Westgroup steals her internet service. I don't think he can bear that thought. Sara will be pissed that he isn't leaving Dallas.
Also, when Gordon tells him someone is stealing his idea he doesn't seem that bothered, but he is bothered when he sees the Mutiny like service.

I think they wanted her to sell because they all have a share and wanted to see some money. I don't know if Donna is pissed at her. Donna isn't in it for the money and she appears to be pretty excited after the party.
I think Tom might know about Cameron's history with Joe and he was hurt she listened to him. I like them, altough they might be a bit boring, but they seem to be in a good place and I don't think she is in love with him yet, but she might love him at some point.

I think you might be right, because CTE is just too big for such a show and he also lied to Dr. Semmel in 202 about his cocaine abuse. He told him he stopped, so maybe Dr. Semmel only diagnozed him on the knowledge he had.

I thought about it a lot, and I think too now, they didn't get married. He is already leaving Westgroup and moving to California with her. It's already enough for the storyline. I think in episode 207 he might suggest to her to leave Westgroup and move to California (this is what they planned in the premiere) and to check out some places as part of an early honeymoon.
I think only 2-3 weeks might have passed between 207 and 208, because Lev only just left the hospital. Also Jacob asks him "how was your trip" not honeymoon. There might have been more hints in the sides if they got married and we almost got 20 pages out of a 55 (?) pages script.
They would make it harder for Cameron to take him back if he is married. I don't know if she could get over this. She is thinking about what Tom said to her about Joe and him in a later scene. I think it's important for her, to find out why she trusted Joe. Maybe she is a bit in denial too about her feelings for her.

I didn't not notice that. This is why I love discussing the sides. So much still to discover.

IDK, if it's actually someone or Gordon is hallucinating. It was weird.

NP has Italian background, so maybe they changed it because of him.

Yeah, I was so lucky , they changed the sides 2 hours later. But I knew there would be new sides before the weekend, so I kept checking them on my phone.

Also, Chris Cantwell aready returned to LA, they will be back again for 210. So they still need to shoot the scenes in 207 with James Cromwell and they will start with 208 this week. Maybe we'll already get sides this week.

Sorry, I just wrote a complete novel again. A lot of typos and sometimes I'm too lazy to correct them afterwards.

parisredbeatrice

There are actually only 3 bigger new characters for now. Tom (Cameron's love interest), Sara (Joe's love interest) and Jacob (Sara's father).
The others are minor characters just like Debbie and the engineers in season 1.

We still don't know who James Dumont will play. I haven't forgotten about him and I think they said he will be featured prominently.

i never learn

i liked the setting, but it felt forced. and i'm annoyed that donna is seemingly the mother of the group. i mean, this should be her time to progress and have fun too.

i also hope cameron gets knocked down a peg... or five before the premiere episode ends.

princessofpower

I like that Donna acts like the real leader of the group. She's at least 10 years older than the rest of them (as she's Gordon's age, so mid-30s) and has experience. I do think Cameron will get knocked down a peg. It will be to give her perspective that when you run a business you HAVE TO make sound decisions, like Joe did with removing her BIOS. All of this will play into her having less anger towards Joe & Gordon for the things that happened in the finale.

I'm still not sure what Joe is doing this season work wise. Is he a sales guy? What is he doing for Jacob Wheeler? I don't want him following around Sara like a puppy. It's weird that he's seemingly directionless.

The previous scene from Season 2 that was released is apparently the 1st act of the Season 2 premiere SETI. It's weird that they don't give any indication that the show jumps ahead that far from Season 1--and I hope they correct that before the full episode airs.


I am excited that a HACF Season 2 trailer will air during THE WALKING DEAD finale tonight!!! That show is the highest rated cable tv show, and most people will watch it live --so they will see the promo. AMC needs to hit the trailer out of the ballpark to give this show a chance to catch on with fans. . . I watch AMC regularly and last year didn't even realize this show had premiered. They did hardly anything to promote it!


One thing I was thinking about HACF that is different from any other show on TV. . Not one person died last season on the show. Even when Joe got beat up or Gordon was in the car wreck, they turned out fine. For dramatic effect, they need to up the stakes just a little.

Btw, I also expect/hope they explore Joe's bisexuality a little more--i.e. the consequences of his lifestyle. Simon likely dying of AIDS, and he had unprotected sex with Travis. Then he had lots of sex with Cameron. Cameron also go a bloody tatoo from those punk kids in the hotel room, with a dirty needle. There are too many opportunities to explore potential HIV/AIDS storylines given the era this show takes place in. I hope the show lasts long enough to see that happen. Could be groundbreaking TV!

parisredbeatrice

I think in the beginning they only want to show that the characters are all back to square one. Just to remind us of the S1 characters and from there they will evolve.
Donna will have fun and I think she enjoys her time at Mutiny. She is the oldest, the adult at Mutiny, so she needs to appear a bit more mature than the others.
Cameron will get knocked down a peg when she can't afford to pay her coders anymore, but I don't mind her being like that.

parisredbeatrice

I think both Donna and Cameron are the leaders in this. Jonathan Lisco said at TCA they want Cameron to hit walls with her idealism, so this is the setup for her character development. I think when Joe removed her OS it wasn't only about a sound business decision. He was afraid, so he went for the safe option, but it might have worked out with her OS too, maybe even more.

I think he is some kind of visionary on the business front because he comes up with a new business idea at Westgroup. He notices how the mainframe server is idle at lot of the time and he comes up with the idea to sell the server capacity to other companies.

And it's one show where I'm sure every character will get his happy ending in the series finale.

I don't think they will, it would be too heavy. I think the point in season 1 was that gender isn't important to him. He isn't screwing around, he used sex as a weapon and was attracted to talented people regardless of gender.
I don't think it will be adressed in season 2, I think he is hiding this pretty much from Sara.

princessofpower

I don't think this bi-sexuality will be addressed in Season 2 either, but I do think there was a specific reason why Simon was "sick" and why they showed Cameron with a bloody dirty tattoo carved into her. Those were well thought out plot hints that could definitely be addressed later on, if the show gets to Season 3 or later. If Joe & Cameron do get back together next season, this issue could be something that comes back to cause problems. . i.e. I could see CAMERON getting HIV+ but no one will know whether it's because of Joe or because of the dirty needle. Obviously, that is a storyline potentially way down the road. . .but the writers have set things in place that it is an option for them to explore.

AMC hasn't shied away from heavy or controversial storylines. I'm glad they went with the male/male kiss. And on the Walking Dead they kill kids, have people eating people and are very graphic. The early/mid 80s was the beginning of the HIV/AIDS awareness and it could prove to give this show additional human "weight" outside technology and ambition.

parisredbeatrice

I think Cameron getting her tattoo while she was sleeping and then stopping it was more about her not fitting into that world either. She isn't a punk, it was only her mask and a facade. She was still isolated in the hotel room.

I think they only wanted to address that Aids started to become an issue then and also to show Joe having compassion and empathy for Simon, so they needed him to have some sickness. I don't see Cameron getting HIV+, there is no coming back from that, she would die after a short time.

i never learn

there's a difference between being a leader and being a mother and donna's acting like a mother imo. unlike joe, who ruled with an iron fist and was obeyed. whether that's a reflection of something in donna that has to be ironed out, i don't know, but i hope she finds her voice this season and stands her ground, even if mutiny is her only rational opportunity for the foreseeable future. i kind of don't believe that though. i mean, a donna/gordon professional partnership would rule! because cameron and joe are too immature to benefit from their knowledge and skill, but they also take advantage of those that are capable of remaining humble while succeeding, yet there is no balance. donna/gordon seem to take the brunt of the responsibility and i don't want that for donna this season, so i hope cameron's attitude is adjusted real quick.

parisredbeatrice

I think it isn't that they want to avoid controversial storylines, it's just a character infected with HIV would die after a short time and I don't see them killing off Cameron. I don't see them killing off anyone, only pushing the characters towards each other. Actually I think they might make Joe and Cameron becoming parents at some point. Both would be scared to screw up and struggling with the responsibility. The one thing I like about cable TV is that they don't drag the storylines on like on network TV. I mean, Grey's Anatomy ran out it's course a long time ago (actually when Sandra Oh left, loved Cristina). The storylines evolve naturally and the show runners know when to end the show.

parisredbeatrice

I thought too from the sides that Donna is acting more like a mother hen and it felt actually naturally, because she is the only adult there. But she also enjoys being there and loves being around, so I think she gets a lot of it back. I think in the sides for 201 Cameron notices that Donna wants to go to the arcade with the coders, but is too shy to go and Cameron tells her not to wait for an invitation. I think she is acting as a mentor and big sister for Cameron this season. I don't think it's bad, she is more mature than Cam and I think they do love each other as friends/sisters.
Cameron is for Donna this season, what Joe was for Gordon last season.

I think we already discussed it at this board it really appears like all the characters are in the beginning back to square one. Cameron being a bit cocky, Donna being the mother hen, Joe pushing for a promotion at Westgroup and Gordon using cocaine (instead of drinking).

princessofpower

I think anything's possible but we will probably have to agree to disagree on this one. The bi-sexual angle and HIV/AIDS topic will be addressed on this show at some point, if it exists beyond Season Two. Unless it takes off in ratings like Breaking Bad did, I can't see the show going for more than three or four seasons. A main character dying at the end of Season 3 or Season 4 would make perfect sense. More so than happily ever after. This doesn't seem like a happily ever after sort of show. I like that it isn't clear. One of the themes of this show is leaving a legacy. . .doing something that has meaning for your life. Cameron represents the future and a vision. Season 2 will be about Cameron and Donna mostly. Ending the show with someone fulfilling their legacy would be a great way to go out though bittersweet.

parisredbeatrice

Ok , I know I'm always too optimistic.