sum1

During to the '90s I stuck mostly to the X-books, with occasonal forays into other Marvel comics. Rarely read any comic that was not Marvel, though I was very aware of things like Image, Spawn, Superman's death and resurrection, etc.

At present, the only non-mutant Marvel character to make it into my top 5 Marvel characters in the comics is Hercules. He's very underrated. Lots of power and lots of personality. There are numerous others I like, such as Thor, Hulk, Silver Surfer and others, as well as various other mutants, but they don't rate in my top 5. My top five are Wolverine, Kitty Pryde, Hercules, Storm and Magneto.

For onscreen it's different, with a strong focus on Netflix Marvel. Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Jon Bernthal's Punisher come before anybody else. My favorites from the MCU movies are Thor and Black Widow. From the X-Men movies, Wolverine and McAvoy's Xavier.

For DC comics, I like Supergirl and Superman best. When it comes to onscreen, Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman gets added to that list. I find the find the comic book Wonder Woman full of bull and crawling with misogyny, the sort of misogyny that sells itself as feminism but is really a burden to women. But in the movies Gal's wonderful performance outweighs that. Tour de force. I love Melissa Benoist's Supergirl too. My favorite Superman is the Supergirl show version too (Tyler Hoechlin). And I've always liked Helen Slater's Supergirl, even if the film was pretty bad. She made a big impression on me when I was a kid in the '80s. Needless to say, I don't like what DC did with Crisis on Infinite Wankers. The whole thing was a betrayal and killing Supergirl was way low. So yeah, I don't like Marv Wolfman.

PhoenixRising

Crisis on Infinite Wankers, sum1?

Yes, I know you do. I'd like for both Uncanny X-Men and The Amazing Spider-Man to be the top sellers.

Hi, Jen's Herald!

Mine were always all of the Spider-Man titles, Fantastic Four, Avengers, Iron Man, and a few others.

sum1

Yeah, you're not a proper X-Men fan.

PhoenixRising

Why, because I was late to the party? Or because I didn't get into X-Men until X-Factor came out?

sum1

Pretty much.

PhoenixRising

Well I'm sorry. I only read the comics my mom bought when I was a kid, and she didn't buy X-Men.

sum1

Oh so you never bought your own comics?

PhoenixRising

I told you that I didn't buy my own comics until Amazing Spider-Man #252 came out in 1984. That's when Peter returned from the Secret Wars in the black and white outfit, and that's what reignited my interest in comic books when I was about to turn 14 years old. Prior to that the comics I read were the ones my mom had bought.

sum1

Lack of childhood independence.

PhoenixRising

Hey, when I was in single digits I didn't have much say in anything. But that was the 70's. In the 80's I was 10, 11, 12, 13, and by 14 I was buying my own comics.

My parents' divorce when I was 11 in 1981 also kinda knocked me off balance back then.

sum1

My sympathy.

PhoenixRising

Thanks. Sorry if my past affects me.

sum1

It's understandable.

I just read a whole load of bull about how The Dark Knight Returns was the start of adult-oriented superhero writing and how before that it was all escapism. People have pretty simplistic ideas about these things. They think unpleasant equals adult. They think think if it's grim and gritty rather than sweetness and light it must not be escapism. They think if it isn't burdened by in-your-face social commentary it must be escapism.

But a lot of people like ESCAPING into stories that are grim and gritty. A lot of people like ENTERTAINING themselves with social commentary and "relevant" ideas. It's no less escapism. It's not this great, serious, mature thing. The way critics and creators sneer at the "escapist" stuff and praise the "mature" stuff comes off reminiscent of little kids boasting "I'm older than you" at each other.

Meanwhile, if a story is about people of some sort and if it has real feelings then it's about the human condition, it's relevant, just as much as some work that beats you over the head with obvious social commentary.

If only these "mature" writers and critics would grow up and realize they don't have to try so hard to prove they're adults. Being an adult isn't about being all grim and no fun -that's a lttle kid's view, though a shocking amount of adults seem obsessed with that notion.

Works like The Dark Knight Returns demonstrate how so many comic book creators have a total inferiority complex about writing comic books and seem desperate to prove to themselves that they're not writing for little kiddies and that they're writing something of worth. And their notions of how to prove that are laughably childish and simplistic.

PhoenixRising

Well, I still consider The Dark Knight Returns to be alternate universe and not canon.

sum1

It is an alternate universe, but it's also the start of the whole "Dark Batman" trend that has dominated the character ever since. It's influenced the whole view of Batman Post-Crisis.

It's got more to it than Batman: Year one or The Killing Joke, but it's a royal pain in the butt. And all those three works are full up of this ridiculous macho posturing which they try to pass off as maturity and intelligence.