News & Politics - Gay adoption - a right or a moral sin? - Page 9

rose parade · 02-23-2007, 09:40 AM

Agreed. Starless Night 20 thanks so much for sharing.

I think a child would rather have two loving parents. And that's all that matters to me.

Jacob1983 · 02-23-2007, 11:26 AM

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the whole "you're born gay" theory. You can throw all the stats and studies at me but I'm not going to cave. Babies don't know anything about their sexual orientation. They don't even know what straight and gay are when they're babies.

Like I said before, I am entitled to my opinion because of the ACLU and the first amendment.
I just find it funny how I'm so wrong and deemed a bigot because I believe homosexuality is unnatural and wrong because of my religious beliefs. However, you posters are allowed to tell me that I'm wrong and don't even let me have my opinion.

I guess I'm a bigot because I believe cheating on your spouse is wrong since the Bible clearly says it's wrong. Right?

rose parade · 02-23-2007, 11:46 AM

Nobody called you a bigot or alluded to that.

migamoo · 02-23-2007, 12:26 PM

Jacob, no one has called you a bigot. Most posters have disagreed with your opinion and have given their reasons why. No one is saying you cannot have or even voice your opinion. If you feel like you've been wronged, please PM me or one of the other mods and we will see what we can do.

elisheva · 02-23-2007, 01:47 PM

Wow - Starless Night 20, thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

Your mother is incredibly brave and so lucky to have a daughter who supports her in something huge like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob1983 (View Post)

Babies don't know anything about their sexual orientation. They don't even know what straight and gay are when they're babies.

Exactly. Kids and babies don't know about sexual orientation and social norms, so if they're used to two men or two women kissing, it wouldn't freak them out (although I agree that almost ALL kids instinctively go "ewwwwwwwwwwww, gross, cooties" when they see people kissing). It's only as kids get socialized that they learn to treat homosexuality as deviant.

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Like I said before, I am entitled to my opinion because of the ACLU and the first amendment.
I just find it funny how I'm so wrong and deemed a bigot because I believe homosexuality is unnatural and wrong because of my religious beliefs. However, you posters are allowed to tell me that I'm wrong and don't even let me have my opinion.

I guess I'm a bigot because I believe cheating on your spouse is wrong since the Bible clearly says it's wrong. Right?

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else on the board. You are allowed to disagree with anyone as long as you remain respectful and follow board rules, and anyone is allowed to disagree with you as long as they remain respectful and follow board rules. If you feel that anyone in this discussion has insulted you or called you a bigot, do contact one of us mods.

I also believe that cheating on one's spouse as wrong, and I imagine most people here do too - but not necessarily because the Bible says so.

Ashleigh · 02-23-2007, 02:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983 (View Post)

I just don't understand the bandwagon gay movement. I mean where were they 10,20, 30 years ago? Where were they back in the 1800s? Why wasn't this trivial issue settled back then?

First off, it isn't a trivial issue. It may be a trivial issue to a heterosexual person who can walk down to the courthouse and get married anytime they please, or to a couple who are blessed with the ability to have children without outside assistance. To the rest of us? Every single day is a struggle. No matter what you or anyone else thinks of us, we DON'T deserve to be discriminated against or hated for no reason.

Second, where were we twenty years ago? Oh yeah. The "gay movement" wasn't truly born until 1969, almost thirty eight years ago. That's where we were. Before that? We were stuffed in the back with the boxes and the winter coats, faking it day-by-day so we wouldn't get assaulted or killed and our families wouldn't be harassed. There have always been gays adopting. There has always been gay marriage. It just hasn't involved OTHER gay people because the ones who came before us spent their whole lives sucking themselves into an image that didn't fit so they wouldn't be harmed physically or emotionally.

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983 (View Post)

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the whole "you're born gay" theory.

I'm sure you've been asked this before, but I'm dying to know the answer: when did you realize you were straight? How did your parents take it? Were they upset? Depressed? Did you feel embarrassed or threatened? It must have been a rough period in your life, coming out as straight and all. Tough decision to make.

Ashleigh · 02-23-2007, 02:02 PM

Oops. Double post.

froggiepopple · 02-23-2007, 02:06 PM

Gay adoption law: An opposing view

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Originally Posted by Bill Maier,Orlando Sentinel

In criticizing Florida's law banning gay adoption and Focus on the Family's support of that law, Sentinel columnist Mike Thomas rustles up a bushel of apples to compare to our oranges ("It's Time to Do the Right Thing on Gay Adoption," Jan. 30).

Our point is a macro one: Public policy on matters such as same-sex marriage and adoption must be based on what's best for all of society. Thomas' point is a micro one, citing one admittedly tragic story to justify the institutionalization of a radical social experiment that could have disastrous effects for millions of children.

Put simply, gay adoption creates families that are motherless or fatherless by design, permanently depriving children of either a mother or a father. Gay advocates loudly proclaim that what kids really need is two "caring adults" in their lives. But a literal mountain of social-science data tell us that children need much more than that -- they need a mommy and a daddy.

Child Trends, a nonprofit, nonpartisan research organization dedicated to improving the lives of children, recently issued a report stressing that "an extensive body of research tells us that children do best when they grow up with both biological parents. Thus, it is not simply the presence of two parents, as some have assumed, but the presence of two biological parents that seems to support children's development."

Why do kids do better on every measure of social, emotional and physical well-being when they grow up with a married mother and father? Because mothers and fathers parent differently. When disciplining, fathers tend to be rule-based, stressing justice, fairness and duty, while mothers tend to be relationship-based, stressing sympathy, care and help. Mothers and fathers also have different communication styles. Fathers are typically more brief, directive and to the point, while mothers tend to be more descriptive, personal and verbally encouraging. Same-sex couples are unable to provide one-half of this equation.

But the consequences of same-sex adoption aren't simply theoretical. Just ask Parker O'Donnell, the adopted son of comedienne Rosie O'Donnell and her partner, Kelli Carpenter. A few years ago on ABC-TV's Primetime, host Diane Sawyer asked O'Donnell if Parker (then 6) ever asks why he doesn't have a daddy.

"Oh, yes," said Rosie, "all the time." Surprised by this admission, Sawyer asked, "Well, what do you tell him?" Rosie said she simply tells Parker that he can't have a daddy "because I'm the kind of mommy who wants another mommy."

Parker doesn't lie awake at night wishing that Florida would legalize gay adoption.

He lies awake at night wishing he had a daddy.

Moderators, first of all sorry that I don't have a link for this story I got through proquest and if I put up a link to there no one would be able to read it unless they can get into proquest. This article is from the Orlando Sentinel and was published on 2/7/07 on pg A.11.

Family options

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hodges, Orlando Sentinel

It's sad to see groups like Focus on the Family and individuals like Bill Maier debate and defend archaic and outright discriminatory law such as Florida's gay adoption ban. While they offer just one option in parenthood -- two married, heterosexual parents, who no doubt have a dog and a white picket fence -- there are literally hundreds of eligible children left without families due to their pursuit of this "ideal."

Let's face reality. The placement of adoptive children should be dictated by the ability of the prospective parents to provide a loving and nurturing home in which to raise them.

Period.

Michael Hodges

Orlando

This article is from the Orlando Sentinel. It was published on 2/8/07 and appeared on page A.14.

I think both articles make some interesting points.

migamoo · 02-23-2007, 02:14 PM

I've said it many times before, what is so great about having a mother and a father? I was raised by just my mother for most of my life because my father was in and out of it due to his alcoholism. I turned out just fine. If a gay couple can pass the checks and can give a child a loving, stable home, than what's so wrong about letting them?

elisheva · 02-23-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Parker doesn't lie awake at night wishing that Florida would legalize gay adoption.

He lies awake at night wishing he had a daddy.

Oh, please. How can this journalist make an assumption like that? You could equally read the quote as the kid asking, being answered, and that's the end of it. There's no reason to believe a child is "lying awake at night wishing for a daddy." And like many people have pointed out, two caring mommies or two caring dads is far better than a caring dad and an uncaring mom or vice versa, plus, kids always find father figures somewhere. Grandparents, teachers, coaches, family friends. My boyfriend grew up without a dad - he was raised almost entirely by women (mom, grandmother, great-grandmother) - and it certainly hasn't hurt him, I think.

And Ashleigh, I agree with you. It may seem trivial to some people, but it really isn't.

Jacob1983 · 02-23-2007, 07:12 PM

Being straight is a social norm and is accepted. I can't give you exact date and exact place when I realized when I was straight but I wasn't born straight. When I was say under ten, I was not attracted to girls or boys. I might sound like an idiot but I think that puberty, how you're raised and possibly peer pressue are factors of what determines if a person is gay or straight. I didn't know that being straight was a crime.

LAMO@no one's ever called me a biggot.

Like I said before, the majority of kids would agree that if they saw two men or two women kissing each other they would say that's weird or "yuck". Children are innocent and I hate to break it to you but homosexuality isn't exactly an innocent thing. Just my opinion. Don't sue me for it.

How much would you like to bet on that?

Answer this for me and I might cave. Who are the mother and father in a gay marriage? I'd like to know that.
Gay marriage to me just seems somewhat dishonest especially if there are adopted children because the roles are not natural. I know that sounds mean but it's true. A gay couple cannot consist of a man and a woman. It's impossible. Another thing that is impossible for a man and a man to have a baby and a woman and a woman have a baby.
Who is mommy and daddy to the kids in a gay family?

**sunnykerr** · 02-23-2007, 07:33 PM

Starless Night 20 Thank you so much for sharing that.

Jacob, for the most part being gay is also quite accepted.

And I can't say that you've never been called a biggot, but you certainly haven't been called that here. We respect your right to have your opinion. But, this being a discussion board and all, we will discuss the parts that we don't agree with. Just like you discuss the parts you don't agree with when somebody else says something.

Can't speak for the majority of kids, but I do know that, when I was a kid, and when my brothers were kids, when my cousins were kids, and when my friends were kids... when we saw two adults kissing, it didn't really matter whether it was a heterosexual couple or a gay couple. It was ewww all the same. That's because kids, as you said yourself, aren't attracted to any gender yet. Kissing is gross because boys have cooties and girls are weird (or whatever) when you're at that age. It's the normal order of things.

Sex of any kind isn't exactly an innocent thing. Being innocent is not the goal here. Being respectful and loving is. At least for me. Innocence is all good, but it goes away sooner or later for everyone. The key is to protect it while you can and also prepare the way for when it goes away, making sure every kid has as smooth a transition as possible. Again, at least for me.

Obviously kids with gay parents (unless they were born or adopted while their parent was living a heterosexual life) have either no father or no mother. Who cares? Plenty of perfectly fine individuals were raised with only one parent.

Jacob1983 · 02-23-2007, 08:10 PM

Innocence is a good thing. And it's a shame that kids nowadays lose theirs too early.
Of course, being is widely accepted. It is funny how some Americans believe that homosexuals suffer so much when in reality they have pretty good in America compared to other countries. In some countries, gays can be killed for being gay and/or have limbs cut off.
However, being gay is still somewhat of a deviant behavior.
But like I said before, if you want to be gay then be gay. People can be gay, straight, or bisexual because they have free will and it's their choice to be what they want to be. However, with all choices come consequences.

Nab · 02-23-2007, 08:59 PM

[Jacob1983;141QUOTE=56512]Innocence is a good thing. And it's a shame that kids nowadays lose theirs too early.[/QUOTE]

Oh, yes. I'm 22 and I think I'm much more innocent than a lot of kids half my age, sadly.

[Jacob1983;141QUOTE=56512]Of course, being is widely accepted. It is funny how some Americans believe that homosexuals suffer so much when in reality they have pretty good in America compared to other countries. In some countries, gays can be killed for being gay and/or have limbs cut off. [/QUOTE]

I don't know if being gay is accepted 100% anywhere in the world, even America. I mean, people are polite and whatnot but that doesn't mean everyone is cool with it and accepts it. Look at it this way, men and women are still being killed just because they are gay - in America and in other countries.

migamoo · 02-23-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob1983 (View Post)

Being straight is a social norm and is accepted. I can't give you exact date and exact place when I realized when I was straight but I wasn't born straight.

So, you think people are born asexual as a whole?

Quote:

When I was say under ten, I was not attracted to girls or boys.

I don't think that anyone is truly attracted to anyone at that age either. Girls might have crushes on boys and boys on girls, or girls on girls and boys on boys, but that doesn't mean it is a sexual attraction. I think it's just an innocent liking of another person.

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I might sound like an idiot but I think that puberty, how you're raised and possibly peer pressue are factors of what determines if a person is gay or straight.

How does puberty affect one's sexual orientation? I can give you outside pressures to make people think they need to be one way when they know on the inside they are not. But that doesn't mean that a gay person who chooses to live as a straight person is straight.

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I didn't know that being straight was a crime.

Uh, no one said it was. But neither is being gay a crime though some like to think it is.

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Like I said before, the majority of kids would agree that if they saw two men or two women kissing each other they would say that's weird or "yuck". Children are innocent and I hate to break it to you but homosexuality isn't exactly an innocent thing. Just my opinion. Don't sue me for it.

I have to agree with Sunny on this one. Like I have said before, most children, because I remember me and my friends the same way, thinking that any two adults kissing was gross. It didn't matter if they were strangers or my parents, gay or straight, it was just gross.

Quote:

Answer this for me and I might cave. Who are the mother and father in a gay marriage? I'd like to know that. A gay couple cannot consist of a man and a woman. It's impossible. Another thing that is impossible for a man and a man to have a baby and a woman and a woman have a baby.

That's not the point. Of course there is not going to be an absolute pairing of a mother and a father. But I ask, and would still like an answer please, what's so great about having both a mother and a father? There are many ways that children can find a father or mother figure outside their parents. Children do it everyday if they come from a single-family home or have abusive parents and need someone to look up to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob1983 (View Post)

It is funny how some Americans believe that homosexuals suffer so much when in reality they have pretty good in America compared to other countries. In some countries, gays can be killed for being gay and/or have limbs cut off.

Yes, gays in America do have more rights than some elsewhere, but we are still being denied basic human rights. That is no laughing matter, and to brush it off is quite alarming because it's saying the opponents do not take equal rights seriously.

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However, being gay is still somewhat of a deviant behavior.

Many things that people do, gay or straight, can be defined as deviant. To deny one group of people rights based on who they love is wrong.

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However, with all choices come consequences.

Yes, because straight couples everywhere are being denied the right to marry and adopt children.


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