migamoo

I know what you are saying, and I can understand what you are getting at. Children are also, in my opinion, more understand at younger ages. Now I know you cannot fully explain to a child what is happening, but I think you can say something that will help them to understand. Also, if they started the process not too long after they adopted, then I'm sure the child would have seen them start living as women and not as men.

sunnykerr

I don't think gender identity issues are necessarily the same as emotional issues. People are born in the wrong body. It happens. I'm not saying there isn't some sort of struggle at some point to come to terms with it, but then we all have struggles coming to terms with whomever it is that we are. But, I think, once they're there, it's just the process of making the change. Not that it's that simple, but I also don't think it's necessarily that big a deal either. I guess it depends on the person.

Emotional problems are a Pandora's Box, because there are so many, and they run such a wide gamut. Some people who have certain emotional problems should definitely not be in charge of children. But it's got nothing to do with their being gay or transgendered.

Oh, and I've been to Princetown a lot. I'm from Quebec. Cape Cod is, well at least it used to be, the usual vacation spot for a lot of us. It's a really nice place. Or, again, at least it was when I was a kid.

Indian Summer

While I agree that gender identity issues and emotional issues are two different things, I think they're related. In this case, the couple knew well in advance they planned to have sex change operations, but put it off to adopt a child first. This child was poorly adjusted- it's not my interpretation of the child, but something that comes from having been around the kid. I don't want to get into all the details on a public debate forum, but the kid had seen his mother die and had a lot of issues coming into the adoption that I think were exacerbated by the experiences within the home.

To me, adoption is a selfless thing to do. It needs to be done from the right spot, to further that child's life and make it better, in all aspects. That's usually the case, as adoptive parents have to jump through hoops to get kids. However, the parents in this situation admit they timed the adoption around the sex change operation- they adopted first not just because they wanted a child in their lives, but because they weren't sure they'd be able to adopt after the surgery. I think that's a big part of my issue here- there was a selfish aspect of their adoption, and given how much this kid had been through already, it was a really shocking transition for the child. I don't remember the exact time frame, but I think the reassignment processes started about four months after the adoption- both parents had the surgeries at the same time, so the kid actually stayed with a family friend for a while as well, before he'd even really adjusted to his new family or home.

Jim Colyer

We live in wierd times when mothers abort their babies and homosexuals adopt.

nopal

Mothers have been aborting their fetuses since the beginning of time. But there are a lot of living children out there that can benefit from a loving, stable home that a homosexual couple could give them.

sunnykerr

Well said.

And, Summer, I totally understand where you're coming from. Obviously you know this case better than I do and I don't for one second question your interpretation of it.

I think it's clear that it's one of those things that easy to speak of when, like me, you don't have any real knowledge of the real-life rammifications; as opposed to when, like you, you've seen it for real. I think, too, that, in the case you speak of, it's clear that there was some things that weren't too kosher going on. I was speaking more in terms of people adoption and dealing with their "transgender-ness" later down the road...

Even then, at best, I've only got theoretical knowledge of what I might feel...

Indian Summer

Yeeeeah. Like I said before, I don't have a problem with transgendered couples adopting in theory, but just like any other adopting couple (whether they be gay or straight), I think they should only be allowed to adopt once they're stable and have their lives worked out. People tend to forget that the child we're talking about in these situations has often been through a lot already and sometimes it isn't about the couple's rights as opposed to the child's rights. I firmly believe that the child should have every chance at a good, healthy, normal life. While I don't think the parents' sexual preference should come into play, I do think how they handle themselves should. In the case I mentioned, it seems like the child was adopted not because the parents particularly wanted a kid right then, but they were scared they wouldn't be able to adopt further down the road, and they put that kid through a lot because of their selfish desires.

To me, the biggest issue is timing, especially with couples undergoing gender reassignment surgery. Adjusting to a new home and family is hard for a kid without your mommy becoming a daddy and vice versa. I've always felt that parents should be parents first, as opposed to being transgenders or gays or whatever. Having a kid shifts your life's focus. I know I'm being somewhat naive, but I just think that if a transgendered couple were to adopt, it would be better for all involved parties for that adoption to go through after the reassignment is complete, or well before (ie. years) it's started.

sunnykerr

Oh, I 100% agree with this. My whole thing about transgendered couples (or individuals in a couple or whatever) was always based on the premise (at least for me) that they had to establish a stable home environment to begin with. That's why I have no problems saying that transgendered people should absolutely have the right to adopt. Because, in my head, that presupposes that the stability of the home comes first and foremost.

I agree with this, too. Well, pretty much. It depends on how much of a focus we're talking about here. I believe parents are people first and that, if they move everything around in their lives to accomodate the child, then the child learns to expect that behaviour from everyone.

Again, what do I know, I'm not a parent. And I'm also not saying that the kid should be, like, a second thought to whatever else is going on in the parents' lives. I just think that we learn what we are shown. And part of that, for me, has to be that the world is a big place, with room for lots of different people and things.

I don't think this is naive at all. I don't have any set requirements in my mind. Just the stability part.

quaist

Well, afaik it's a long process for couples who want to adopt a child. Some have to wait years, and in many countries you have to fullfill many requirements to be able to just apply. So I don't think that'd be a problem.

elisheva

Why's that? As nopal pointed out, abortions have always been happening (just never as safe as now and more likely to either fail or cause infection or death). And sexual orientation doesn't affect love for children or desire for a family. Isn't it better that people can be openly themselves and still be able to take care of children who need a home? And that women have real choices when they're in a crisis situation?

Ashleigh

Eh? There've been mothers aborting babies and homosexuals raising children for all time. The only difference is now it's done openly.

migamoo

I thought that this was an interesting article and would share: Queer, Isn't It?: The Ugly Duckling has Two Daddies.

Jerry D

To me, what’s important is that a child be raised in a loving home with two parents that are devoted to that child. If both parents are gay, and they can raise that child in a loving a supportive atmosphere, and they have the means to support that child, then I say more power to them.

quaist

That's cute.

~Unfaithful~

To me, the most important thing is that they continue with the rigorus screening that ANY adopted couple must go through, and that only decent loving people are allowed to adopt. After that it doesn't matter to me, black white, gay straight....they all love the same.