starryeyesxx

They're not exactly stealth

Charmed Slayer Angel

Not exactly

starryeyesxx

You do wonder how these guys saved the world so many times

royalღcaliber

It's so true!!

starryeyesxx

Everything is making me so nostalgic today


slayer comma the

Charmed Slayer Angel

Bbys!

rossfangirl86

Cute pic!

Yes, exactly! In s4 when the scoobies drifted apart it made sense since they were all doing their own thing but then they reuinted. Then they kind of drifted apart again all of a sudden. BW just didn't seem as close after s4, from what I recall. And I agree about s6/s7 feeling like the BS show. It was sad that Buffy drew closer to him and further away from the human friendships she had that were so important in her high school/college years.

Charmed Slayer Angel

Hence why I have issues with the latter seasons, tbh It felt more so like the show paid a little more attention to pleasing the fans than they had before

starryeyesxx

ICA I think a lot of the characters & dynamics were neglected as the series went on



dont blame the movies

rossfangirl86

^ That was a funny scene. And you're right, a lot of dynamics were neglected later in the series. Especially the ones between the scoobies in general.

Watched Prophesy Girl last night and I liked the BW scene in Willow's room. It was also nice to see Willow go back into the school even after Buffy told her to stay put, she just wanted to help Buffy. I like how the girls helped each other in that one.

☆♥~Buffyverse_Lover16~♥☆

In Season Six and Four, their dynamics were a bit neglected.

starryeyesxx

I don't think they were neglected in those seasons, I think the writers still put a lot of effort into how they were writing those dynamics & the story at the time was friends growing apart. I think season 7 is when they were neglected

☆♥~Buffyverse_Lover16~♥☆

We all have our opinions. I just think Season Four and Six because of college and being out of high school in Season Four, and Buffy's secret relationship with Spike, Giles leaving, and Willow's addiction with magic in Season Six.

Charmed Slayer Angel

(This is gonna be long, so head's up. Wrote you guys a damn book)

Everything I've ever seen has pointed to Season 7 being a damn mess on every front. And for good reasoning. SMG didn't announce she was leaving to really anyone until the announcement came out in a magazine article she did (Alyson mentioned that was how she found out a few years ago I believe), so that leads me to believe that Joss probably had plans for a Season 8 and maybe even a Season 9 at the time, and SMG's announcement forced him to try and condense them. This would explain why there seems to be so much stuff going on in S7 compared to other seasons. I'm not sure why Joss and the writers chose to devote so much time to the Potentials, given that none of us really wanted to see so much time devoted to them when it could have been devoted to the Core Four, which is what should have been done. If it was the last season, then Buffy/Willow/Xander/Giles should have received the majority of the attention within the season.

In addition, Joss was entertaining the idea of a few spin-off things, as well as already being involved in other projects. There was mentions at the time in a few different interviews of there being a possible Giles movie, as well as Faith spin-off (The Giles movie never got going, and the Faith spinoff never happened because Eliza chose to go work on Tru-Calling instead.) There was also apparently a possible mention of Faith and Willow having their own spin-off show, that never happened for a few different reasoning.

This is totally different from Season 4, although S4 wasn't the most well planned season either. Joss has mentioned in a few different interviews before, which I wish I had on hand but I don't, where he mentioned he had the idea for Season 5 as early as Season 2 or Season 3. The only thing was that he didn't know what was going to happen between the high school years and the college years. Where he and the other writers got the idea about Season 4 showcasing the Scoobies growing apart, I'm not sure (There's a few different books coming out soon about this, so maybe they'll shed some light on the subject when they're released.), but it makes sense in context. Most high-school relationships/friendships don't survive the transition to college and adulthood. I myself have experienced that quite a bit and I'm sure there's countless others who can say the same. Hence why we see Xander and Giles feeling put out because of Willow, Oz, and Buffy going to college. It's not the same kind of world that Season 3 showcased where they were seeing each other each and every day throughout the entire time they were at school. With college, there were conflicting schedules between the Scoobies, which led to things like Buffy spending more time with Riley, Xander spending time with Anya, Giles seeking a relationship and a purpose before Buffy asks him to be her Watcher again in Season 5, and also Willow spending more and more time with Tara once she discovers they share a lot of the same interests.

In comparison, Season 7 shows what happens when the writers clearly didn't have a plan or method through which they would arrive at the show's ending. I think Joss and the writers had the idea to use the First as the Big Bad of the season, but at the same time, there was much more that they would have to fill the time in the season with. Hence why there's so much time devoted to Buffy/Spike, as well as the Potentials. Obviously both needed to be addressed in consideration to the storyline, but there wasn't much need for the majority of the Season to be devoted to them to the point that the rest of the characters suffer for it. For example, Willow gets one or two episodes through which she is the main showcase. Dawn gets one. Giles get not a single one, and Xander's episode falls back on the older Seasons' idea of him being constantly involved with demonic women. Willow's relationship with Tara and feelings over her death aren't really addressed in a natural way that leaves the average viewer of the show with a good sense of resolution, and the bond she felt with Buffy is damn near forgotten about past "Same Time, Same Place."

Although I have issues with Willow/Kennedy, I can understand why they wanted to show Willow moving on with her life, even despite the tragedy that had set off her time as Dark!Willow in the final three episodes of Season 6. However, the way they do it comes across as merely the writers getting the subject out of the way. Besides the mention of the First trying to use Tara to get Willow to kill herself in "Conversations With Dead People", there's no mention of Tara ever again in the show. Instead, the time is devoted to more time with Buffy and Spike fixing their relationship, along with the Potentials beginning to come into their own.

Dawn's episode, on the other hand, feels like it was a last minute addition that really doesn't mean all that much in the long run of the season's storyline. We get an episode of her thinking she's a potential, and then nothing ever comes of it. Giles is also completely ignored in terms of character development, and I honestly feel he was downgraded a bit in terms of development, in that the writers fall back on the old trend of him being angry with Angel, but transfer said emotions to Spike in a way that feels tacked on and really last minute. Xander is also pretty much ignored throughout the show, especially in terms of him dealing with the fallout from the marriage with Anya in "Hell's Bells."

The main focus is on Buffy and Spike, along with the Potentials. Even our villains are really throwaways, when they could have been so much more. There's flashes of great writing from the First, but other than the scene where it's infiltrated the house disguised as one of the Potentials, and the scene where it torments Dawn, and Willow, there's literally no substance to its appearance. They could have used it to torment Giles with visions of Jenny, or even tried to use Angel or Joyce against Buffy, which would have been heartbreaking to see.

Caleb is another throwaway that seems just there to have something for Buffy to fight. We get no background information on him, how he came to be aligned with the First, his reasoning for fighting, etc. Nothing. He's a cardboard cut out of a villain. The Ubervamps get a good reveal and there's a good amount of tension around them for the first few episodes they appear in, but after that, it's almost as though they're an afterthought. Compare the fight scene between the Ubervamp and Buffy, then look at the end battle in "Chosen". It has the same participants, but the Ubervamps have been crippled.

While Season 4 isn't the strongest in terms of villains either, there's the fact that the Big Bads weren't supposed to be the main focus of the season. The entire season really is built upon the Scoobies growing apart as people, rather than trying to defeat a villain. In that regard, the Initiative is almost an afterthought, but not to the degree that Season 7 feels like. In Season 4's case, it's because the writers had chosen to devote more time to the characters rather than the villains, and given that Joss wanted to get to Season 5, it makes sense. S4 was almost filler in a sense before the main show that would be Season 5. This is different from Season 7 because S7's issues clearly weren't planned. In fact, I almost think the writers had no plan at all. They had a starting point, and an end point. Between that, they had no idea what the hell they were doing. And it shows in the quality of the show at that point in its lifespan.

☆♥~Buffyverse_Lover16~♥☆

Good points, but I don't have issues with Willow and Kennedy.