starryeyesxx

Nice bit of continuity too

Ashes Fall

Indeed and see, I knew she was still jealous.

starryeyesxx

That's probably why they cut it, because they didn't want it to seem that way...

Ashes Fall

I don't see why that would have been an issue, IWRY was still early on, so Cordy was still largely her Sunnydale self. Unless they felt that knowing or having the idea that Cordelia had a thing for Angel would cause a conflict with Doyle that was undesired.

FuriosityShell

The scene had Cordy recapping the entire Buffy/Angel saga to Doyle in her own Cordelia-esque way. I assume they probably cut it because they felt viewers didn't really need a huge recap of it because they already knew and new viewers didn't need such a detailed recap and they could put the pieces of Buffy and Angel's relationship themselves.

I assumed Cordy's line was more to do with her rivalry and complex jealousy of Buffy than general than of any feelings for Angel. Cordy was very anti-Angel in BtVS S3 after what went down in BtVS S2 and even though they became friends in "City Of", I feel like it would have been a while before she regained solid romantic feelings for him after that.

fractured moonlight

I love the Cordy/Angel library scene too and his smile in Halloween means so much.

tender looks

I didn't know about that cut line from IWRY, sort of wish they had kept that in now.

starryeyesxx

I agree, I don't think it would have made sense for her to be jealous at that point

Ashes Fall

This is taking my statements out of context.
"a thing for him" and "she was still jealous" are NOT exclusively romantic statements.

Personally, I thought she harbored jealousy of Buffy until season 2 when she'd first accepted the visions and started evolving. 'Eternity' also has a reference to Buffy which got a response from Cordy that could have been interpreted as jealous.
That's what I was referring to.

As for "a thing for him", I meant that although primarily her pursuit of Angel was exclusively aimed at destroying Buffy, she clearly also had a surface attraction to him. "Hello salty goodness" remember? And that was actually seconds before she even knew he had anything to do with Buffy. Come on, how could she not? The guy is gorgeous!
That in no way is equivalent to having feelings for him.
Back then men were accessories, Cordy never really cared about the men she dated, we see this with Mitch (or was it Mike?) in 'Out of Mind out of Sight' and there is no way she was ignoring the ultimate arm candy Angel was being a gorgeous older guy.

Of course, I'm talking pre-season 2 of BTVS. I know she became anti-Angel after the whole Angelus arc.

When she ran into him in LA though, it's pretty clear from her face that seeing him lifted her up a couple of inches from the lowest part of her life...at the time.

What is off-putting for me about that line being a part of Cordy giving Doyle a Bangel recap is that not only was it unnecessary for the viewers but also for Doyle which was giant continuity error. Doyle gave the recap in 'City of...', so he knows already. He doesn't require Cordy to give him one, whether it would have been her own self-serving version or not.
Both are the reasons I agree with it being cut.
Though there IS an alternate 'City of...' opening in which Angel gives the recap, I don't think that was ever actually intended as I was told that was just the series pitch. Which good, it also wasn't ideal. Angel's version was way too drawn out for a majority viewer population who already knew the story. The only purpose any recap served was to comfortably establish the tie in.

FuriosityShell

I wasn't taking your statements out of context. I was stating my own general interpretation on Cordy's jealousy.

I do agree that, even though her pursuing Angel was largely her wanting to one-up Buffy ("I'll just see if Angel feels like dancing"), that she did have some genuine surface attraction feelings toward him. Of course, she still would have pursued him whether Buffy was there or not.

Even though Doyle knew the general story of Buffy/Angel (they have sex, he goes bad, he's cured and leaves for her own good), Cordy was explaining it much more in-depth, even talking about Buffy and Angel fighting in the mall in "Innocence" (she was too embarrassed to shop there for, like, weeks :lol). But yeah, while amusing, the scene was rightfully cut.

I like your saying Cordy got over her jealousy of Buffy once she embraced her visions. I agree with that, but I do wish we got more mentions of Buffy in later seasons of AtS from Cordy to show what Cordy in her more matured state, thought of her.

starryeyesxx

I think that little things like that were just there for people who watched Angel without watching Buffy, but the writers didn't want to go into it too much - partly b because they were trying to move away from the bangel relationship, & partly because the new audience didn't need any of those details

Ashes Fall

I still maintain that what Doyle already knew was enough, though this would fit with Cordy's tendency at the time to overshare and I do like the idea of getting Cordy's of certain events. The comment that she was too embarrassed to shop at the Sunnydale mall for weeks after the 'Innocence' fight between Buffy and Angelus is hilarious. However did she manage to survive all that time without shopping, especially in the hellmouth city!?

We do get a pretty decent idea condensed into two moments, that Cordy did learn to respect Buffy or at least what she'd once meant to Angel.
First in 'Heartthrob' with the "that's not betraying her, that's honoring her" conversation, then in a later episode I don't specifically remember in her excitement as she announces that Buffy's alive.

I, however, do believe that since the conflict between the two girls was highlighted many times throughout the first 3 seasons of BTVS, there needed to be a Buffy/Cordy episode in mid-season 3 when Cordy's evolution into maturity was full-fledged so Buffy could see that and the two of them could reconcile. I truly believe that to not acknowledge that left a loose end.

This IWRY recap would have been the only time they'd thrown a bone to ATS viewers who chose not to watch BTVS so I don't know about that but after 'heartthrob' which is the point when Bangel officially became a distant past as stated by David Greenwalt, "It was a first love and that's where it will remain.", a decision seemed to have been established to detach the two shows.
This is basically confirmed by their supposed reason for removing that Angel revealed to Buffy that he loved Cordy from 'Chosen'.
Which is why the season 8 BTVS comics sound like a horrendous fanfic to me, because of it's bringing back Bangel being a giant inconsistency.

Though, BTVS being moved to a different network is another reason crossovers were avoided. Typically crossovers need to remain within the same network. A few necessary exceptions were made in this case since the two series are directly related.

starryeyesxx

I don't think it was a bone, I think it was just an attempt to explain who this girl was to Angel & why it was such a big deal when she showed up.

FuriosityShell

Yeah, I like Cordy acknowledging Buffy's death. I do think the writers have a habit of throwing Cordy under the bus for the sake of a joke. She said "Don't say the B word!" to Gunn in "Heartthrob" regarding Buffy's name, when there was no reason not to mention Buffy because Angel wasn't even around to be affected by it. This was an in-joke from the writers at how the WB wanted them to mention Buffy less since it was on a new network, but it still makes Cordy look insensitive. In "Carpe Noctem", when Angel is possessed by the old man Marcus and kisses Lilah, Fred sees and tells Cordy. Before finding it out it was Lilah, a brunette, she says, "Getting it on with some cheap blonde? This is exactly like him." She could have also been referring to Darla but this is before she knew Angel had sex with her and this is also BEFORE she found Buffy was resurrected and she just comes off as cruel.

Though I often love Cordy doing her Angel impersonations and I always find it funny when she busts his chops, like calling him a "eunich" (Charisma actually said calling Angel a "eunich" was one of her favorite lines, alongside "softer side of Sears" to Willow ), I do feel bad because I think Angel was always genuinely hurt when his friends would poke fun at him like that.

While I would have LOVED to see Buffy find out about Angel/Cordy, I do think the writers made a great choice in not having Angel tell her in "Chosen". It was literally the last episode of BtVS, a lot of fans think Angel shouldn't have been there anyway because it took too much time away from the regular characters. And it would have been completely random for Angel to show up like "By the way, I'm in love with Cordelia who hasn't been on the show for four years and who I rarely interacted with when she was. Also, I have a son which is completely against the vampire mythology but I had sex with Darla, the evil vamp I staked back in S1, which is completely unlike me but I was in a bad place, and these special trials granted her another life, which turned out to be my baby". Buffy's head would have probably exploded right then and there
However, there is NO excuse whatsoever for Cordy's lack of mention in S8 when Angel appears.

Ashes Fall

I didn't recall "don't say the B word", just the second time she does it on the subway during the "you loved someone?" conversation.
Cordy at one point puts in "we try not to say her [Buffy's] name".

Now if memory serves I believe her delivery there did make light of it, like it was a sidenote.
What bothers me though about the whole 'B-word' concept is how unlike with the Wes mention in ATF pertaining to Cordy, there was no substance here. There was nothing backing up that Angel felt unable to endure the sound of Buffy's name and the revelation that her death wasn't difficult for him to handle directly argues that he did not.

I almost wonder if it was really necessary for Angel to know in the first place that Buffy died since they'd been out of each other's lives for a good couple of years but his coming to terms with her having faded into his past was well worth it and I love the parallel the "You loved someone?" conversation has with Angel in the aftermath of Cordy's death in season 5.

thus I do believe that between the 'B-word' thing and completely omitting her death from ATS (which is the only alternative I can think of that meets the request not to mention her), the 'B-word' thing was the better choice. It should have been given to either Fred or Gunn though, the characters who don't have a personal connection to Bangel.

Alright, totally forgot that. That seems a bit too Sunnydale Cordy for season 3. *sigh*
So then she didn't totally learn to respect Bangel and that actually reminds me that when Cordy goes off on Angel when Darla shows up pregnant, she seemed jealous on top of adressing the situation for what it was, which was irresponsible. So perhaps there was still some jealousy for Buffy in her.

Angel did seem to take some of the pokes made at him more seriously than they were intended. One moment that comes to mind was:
Cordy: Fred can hardly tie her shoes without mr. "you're my big fat hero" around.
Angel: You think I'm fat?
That cracks me up, even typing it up right now, but the totally depressed tone in which he says it and the expression on his face suggests that he actually felt like there was something to her electing to use that phrase and I don't blame him. Since when does anyone ever add adjectives to "my hero"?

One thing I've noticed is that throughout Cordy's evolution, her outspokenness and raw honesty were parts of her nature that she never really lost so it's not like she was taken out of character. Angel being the one person who really appreciates her raw nature, I feel like it was more that such notions of himself were just difficult to hear from someone he cared about so much. I'm pretty sure he didn't care as much when it was someone else taking a shot at him.

I'll agree with you about the line being removed from 'Chosen' and I am among those who felt as though Angel should not have appeared at all. I don't see how it took any time away from the regular characters, it was a short scene but regardless of the length, his entire role, planting a kiss on Buffy and his hissy fit over Spuffy was horrendous and didn't even serve any purpose. Having Buffy directly choose Spike over Angel was strong and was largely how Spuffy convinced me but was that really needed, was Spuffy even coming up needed any more than a Cangel mention was? I say no.
The only reason the Cangel mention being removed bugs me is because Angel gets to find out about Spuffy so that kind of had it sitting on uneven ground but like I said he should have never found out about Spuffy.
I, however, agree that whether or not Cangel had been a topic of the discussion, Connor coming up would have been unnecessary and would not have worked. There is no way Angel would want to discuss the whole Darla thing with Buffy which would be kind of unavoidable, unless he would have made an unspecific mention of Cordy as Connor's mother figure and let Buffy do whatever she would with that. Although he'd never undo Connor, that was still a time in his life that he's not proud of.

I actually wondered at first if that was really Angel and not like 'The First' or something posing as him because his tone and facial expression the entire time weirded me the eff out. It was very stone cold and eerie even for his brood-mode, it was almost Angelus-esque. Though I figured out that it might have been because this was JUST after the season 5 opening of ATS where he'd lost both Cordy and Connor in the same few minutes.

In any case, I'm glad Buffy kicked his keester back to LA. He would have brought a lot of clutter to the episode as a whole. Now had Cordy been alive and well and able to go with him...there might have been something interesting there, such as Cordy being the one to take out all the ubervamps with her glow power instead of Spike with the amulet. I think that would have been a better way to introduce the glow power than the demon slugs.