[Kiki17]

Originally Posted by kdjfjdfj (View Post) Everybody is changing. I love the new Alicia, she is still the fantastic Alicia. Alicia was back to be a lawyer, because the situation made her do this.she has to support the family. Four years later, everything seems to be normal, Peter is back to politics, kids grow up, she definitely was not the same person she was four years ago.

I am with you on this, but I would really say is not a “new” Alicia but a “changed” Alicia, character development. I think Alicia has changed and it she wouldn't have changed she would have been accused to being stagnant. I am not saying all her changes are for the better. I still get the this Alicia, a little selfish, sure but why not? Isn't that what Kalinda told her to do, do things for herself? That if she wants something to act on it. S5 Alicia is in a different place than S1 Alicia, with different circumstances and goals and experiences. She is still the same person. There are still some core things about her personality that have never, and will never, change.

We have no idea what goes inside of her mind. We don't know what she thinks, how she feels, etc. We have now an unidimensional character, lacking depth. And after the fantastic Alicia from S1 and S2, that's just wrong. And very, very bad.

I am not sure I would go as far as she is lacking depth. She doesn’t have the same priorities anymore. But is not like she is going through life doing nothing, she has goals, ambitions, priorities, etc that in my opinion is not “undimensional” Of course that doesn’t mean you have to find them interest or even something you care for. But to me that’s not lacking depth. She has become a lot less detached, sure, but this all comes from being deeply hurt and trying to get back up. I miss S2 Alicia but I am nowhere to the point of saying S4 Alicia sucks and I still don’t see traits of who Alicia is. Also since when is S1/S2 Alicia an easy to read? Or know what was going on in her mind, she has been a mystery.

she expresses it respectfully, which she did.

Yes Miss Feminia has been on the board for over two years now.

Originally Posted by Alicia Gardner (View Post) I agree with miss femina about Alicia.

Originally Posted by Zouzou (View Post) I agree with everthing here.

Originally Posted by springrain (View Post) All of what I want to say.

Originally Posted by rony3369 (View Post) i have to say ITA

Originally Posted by Miss Anonymous (View Post) I want to thank Miss Femina again. You speak out my views on Alicia for a long time. Thank you!

Thanks for the input.

[wardengrill]

I think you're right and I agree that in the heart of hearts she's still the same person.She's always been reserved and many events in her life made even more diffcult for her to not to be.And it's not really a flaw,not always at least.I think what Miss Femina meant,in my opinion of course,it that she was more natural back then.Not easy to read,conflicted,not trusting but still natural.Like Will said to Cary in the beginning of season one 'You know what's great about people like Alicia?She's a natural.She doesn't have to try so hard'.And sometimes I feel like she does just that,tries to hard.I'm sure in this mix of Alicia as mom,lawyer,wife,friend,first lady ect there's still Alicia as Alicia somewhere,but it's kind of hard to see recently.

[StarryFlower]

Originally Posted by Kiki17 (View Post) I am with you on this, but I would really say is not a “new” Alicia but a “changed” Alicia, character development. I think Alicia has changed and it she wouldn't have changed she would have been accused to being stagnant. I am not saying all her changes are for the better. I still get the this Alicia, a little selfish, sure but why not? Isn't that what Kalinda told her to do, do things for herself? That if she wants something to act on it. S5 Alicia is in a different place than S1 Alicia, with different circumstances and goals and experiences. She is still the same person. There are still some core things about her personality that have never, and will never, change. .

I agree that it's definitely character development. Alicia in earlier seasons would still do morally questionable things like for a client, or even for herself like how she won the job over Cary (although I think that was mainly for her kids as she needed to keep a roof over their heads) I agree that she's in a completely different place than she was in S1 and now she's able to be more selfish and out for herself. I think being around Will and Diane who do underhand things on a daily basis to win a case and being exposed and now actively participating in Peter's shady world of politics has had an influence on her for sure.

[Alwayshappy]

Originally Posted by Kiki17 (View Post) I am with you on this, but I would really say is not a “new” Alicia but a “changed” Alicia, character development. I think Alicia has changed and it she wouldn't have changed she would have been accused to being stagnant. I am not saying all her changes are for the better. I still get the this Alicia, a little selfish, sure but why not? Isn't that what Kalinda told her to do, do things for herself? That if she wants something to act on it. S5 Alicia is in a different place than S1 Alicia, with different circumstances and goals and experiences. She is still the same person. There are still some core things about her personality that have never, and will never, change. I am not sure I would go as far as she is lacking depth. She doesn’t have the same priorities anymore. But is not like she is going through life doing nothing, she has goals, ambitions, priorities, etc that in my opinion is not “undimensional” Of course that doesn’t mean you have to find them interest or even something you care for. But to me that’s not lacking depth. She has become a lot less detached, sure, but this all comes from being deeply hurt and trying to get back up. I miss S2 Alicia but I am nowhere to the point of saying S4 Alicia sucks and I still don’t see traits of who Alicia is. Also since when is S1/S2 Alicia an easy to read? Or know what was going on in her mind, she has been a mystery.

Thanks for this. I agree so much. I don't know what else I can add, ha. I still love Alicia so much, she has been through so much, and I'm glad she got tougher over the years and learned from certain things. I do agree that she isn't so attached to people anymore ( although she would still do everything for her kids, and even her friends - and she still cares for cases A LOT - see the previous case - she even questioned Cary about wether or not they would be able to do these kind of cases in their build up ), but that's because of the fact that she got hurt so many times, it's realistic. Besides...earlier on we knew what Alicia was thinking because she talked to Kalinda more often, but since S3 she doesn't do that anymore...not on the same level anyway, so that may explain why people find her even more mysterious this year.

[Gelfling]

I love the scene where Alicia asked Cary why Kalinda didn't go with them to the new firm. That means Alicia and Kalinda still have a good work relationship.

But how long can they continue this charade? That's exactly why it felt like a punch in the gut. They are going to go on pretending they are back in good terms and they even brought a new character just to make sure they'll never have to work together ever again.

The sum total of Kalinda scenes this season rests on an actress who was supposed to be in the premiere and was apparently cut (for God knows what reason this time, probably the same as oh you know... the other two times!) so we're left with Kalinda being a ghost in the show, which wouldn't happen if she was doing her job, which was investigating.

Of course that would mean interacting with Alicia and that's impossible. But not in the show's canon, and that's what feels totally wrong.

Don't you think people who don't know about the behind the scenes drama are wondering why the hell they are never working together anymore even though they are on better terms?

And setting Kalinda's absence aside for a minute, I agree that it doesn't help Alicia as a lead. She doesn't talk to anyone anymore.
She doesn't talk to Peter.
She certainly doesn't talk to Will.
She doesn't even talk with her brother, or her kids.
She didn't talk to her micro "friends" from last season.
She's left with nobody to confide in, and she's a fairly emotionally opaque character, I think we can all agree to that at least, and any shipper who denies it is lying because you all bitched about it as one point or another. That's who she is. And Kalinda served that purpose from a storytelling point of view.

So unless they have Alicia narrate the episode in voice-over, Phillip Marlowe style , we are left without her perspective. JM is a good actress but she can't give us everything just with facial expressions. We need to HEAR Alicia's thoughts sometimes. And as much as I don't like to reduce Kalinda to a sounding board, she was at least that in the first two seasons.

It's not about what Alicia does or doesn't do, what her actions are, or her inner struggles, if any, are, it's that we are not privy to her thoughts on it anymore. When she told Kalinda in season 1 that she didn't care about whether her client was going to lose his job, that was a wonderful scene for the character. We don't get those anymore and we never will again.

So, yes, Alicia, old or new, as a character, lost a dimension because of it. She lost depth.

[Venilia]

Originally Posted by Alwayshappy (View Post) Thanks for this. I agree so much. I don't know what else I can add, ha. I still love Alicia so much, she has been through so much, and I'm glad she got tougher over the years and learned from certain things. I do agree that she isn't so attached to people anymore ( although she would still do everything for her kids, and even her friends - and she still cares for cases A LOT - see the previous case - she even questioned Cary about wether or not they would be able to do these kind of cases in their build up ), but that's because of the fact that she got hurt so many times (emphasis added), it's realistic. Besides...earlier on we knew what Alicia was thinking because she talked to Kalinda more often, but since S3 she doesn't do that anymore...not on the same level anyway, so that may explain why people find her even more mysterious this year.

You mean once, right? When she found out Peter cheated on her, right?

Seriously, this isn't directed at you or your post specifically, I'm using it because I've noticed people who like Alicia mention this often (admittedly, it's most often found in fanfiction).

Let me get this straight: I like Alicia. Seriously, she's a very well developed character in comaprison to other TV characters out there. Alicia has actual flaws, she's very insecure, arrogant and entitled (my personal opinion, please don't ask me to elaborate too much), and she has mommy issues. BUT, what I actually mind, and what makes me classify her as a Mary Sue, is the fact that other characters don't react to these flaws, and those who do are viewed as the "villains" by the viewers as a rule (for lack of better word I use the term "villain" to encompass all characters viewed negatively by Alicia). Other characters simply adore Alicia. She's so super special that clients with big legal problems specifically seek her out (instead of requesting Will or Diane's personal work on their case). Alicia doesn't mess up. Ever. Alicia never suffers the consequences of her actions.

[Kiki17]

I don't like that she's being selfish; even JM said that there will be points this year when people will hate Alicia, but I think it is a natural progression.

And thats completely fine, I think there could definitely some ups and downs on agreeing or disliking what Alicia is doing. I am not completely happy about some of the way she makes decisions. I just personally tend to TRY to stay away from "hating" characters (Nick and Blake exceptions ) cause if you try to see both sides you can see both sides of situations.

I really hate that the Kings made Alicia's decision to leave the firm just about Will. It makes her seem weak.

Well yea and it really does depend if you solemnly believe is because of Will. I hate that the Kings said it was because of Will, because it's freaking ridiculous. But I also know there is more to Alicia's decision, she was having trouble with L&G management techniques, she didn't like how the partnerts thing went down, and to add more drama of course you got Will. I think it was a mixture but because the Kings love the ****ing triangle they had to bring it back to that.

Don't you think people who don't know about the behind the scenes drama are wondering why the hell they are never working together anymore even though they are on better terms?

Of course they are. I definitely believe there is a huge problem here, and the Kings are not making it any better. I honestly don't know how long they can keep this charade. I really don't have an answer to that. It makes about zero sense to me.

So unless they have Alicia narrate the episode in voice-over, Phillip Marlowe style , we are left without her perspective. JM is a good actress but she can't give us everything just with facial expressions. We need to HEAR Alicia's thoughts sometimes. And as much as I don't like to reduce Kalinda to a sounding board, she was at least that in the first two seasons.

No disagree from me there, I believe Alicia SHOULD talk to someone. Why I believe K/A NEED to come back, not only cause it makes the show better but it's also good for Alicia to let things out.‪I think that Alicia needs to verbalize her thoughts, and yes the show does suffer because of this. However I don't necessary believe that because we don't hear her talk about her thoughts we completely lost her, and is not an interesting ‬character with real complexities still to discuss. Like just because I don't know what she is thinking does not mean she is not as good of a character anymore. There is a definitely void where Alicia used to let things out to Kalinda, and I want it back, I just don't believe is such a gaping hole that makes Alicia a worse character.

She doesn't even talk with her brother,

And technically not true…what about 4.21? *but whatever minor point*

You mean once, right? When she found out Peter cheated on her, right?

I definitely believe Alicia has been hurt more than once. Here are just three:
- Kalinda lied to her about Peter / Peter lied to about Kalinda
- Diane/Will pulling the rug under her (which she perceived as a betrayal)
- Constant reminder from the media of the scandal. Haunting reminder her and the world that she was shamed and embarrassed.

admittedly, it's most often found in fanfiction).

sounds like a fanfciton problem

is the fact that other characters don't react to these flaws, and those who do are viewed as the "villains" by the viewers as a rule (for lack of better word I use the term "villain" to encompass all characters viewed negatively by Alicia)

Well because the viewers perceived them as villains has nothing to do with Alicia. It says more about the viewers of this show, I don't get that mentality honestly that characters are villain. As to don't react to her flaws? I need examples? I can give you multiple examples of numerous episodes of nothing but characters calling her out on her bad attitudes: Julius calling her out, Diane calling her out, Will calling her out, Eli calling her out. I can go on.

Alicia doesn't mess up. Ever. Alicia never suffers the consequences of her actions.

Maybe not all the time, but things do come back at times to bite her in the ass. So she gets the job ahead of Cary, but now she is stuck with Eli. She sleeps with Will and now she has people saying she got the promotion for sleeping with her boss. In The Seven Day Rule she is pouting about the D/W, so Diane has to call her out on her behavior, doesn't seem like a free past to me; she sulks and suffers the consequences.
And what is yet to come, leaving the firm, we already see some of the repercussions.

[Substance]

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Alicia - Unlike most women of our days, and unlike Alicia from S1/S2, she's no longer Alicia, the woman, the wife, the mother and the lawyer. She's merely Alicia, the lawyer. We have no idea what goes inside of her mind. We don't know what she thinks, how she feels, etc. We have now an unidimensional character, lacking depth. And after the fantastic Alicia from S1 and S2, that's just wrong. And very, very bad.

There was a lot of "emotional" Alicia in this episode. She tried to tell Will about the split. She tried to explain why she is leaving. She had second thoughts. She felt horrible about the death row case. I didn't pay much attention to Carey, but if he is the annoying high five dude, Alicia is just as irritated about him as the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Kalinda - I'm sorry such a great character had S4 as her last season. It's very sad to see Kalinda ending with such an awful arc like the one about her ex-husband.

Umm, what? I've heard nothing but rumours of Archie leaving. According to this, there should be plenty of Kalinda in this season.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) It would have been great to watch the scenes of Geneva with Kalinda!

Score! But maybe there was a scheduling issue.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Diane - We got the usual Diane, but not enough;

After every single TGW episode there has been a person whining that this or this char didn't have enough screen. It's a 42 minute show. I have a feeling Diane's turn comes in the second episode.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Will - Something was off with Josh. He wasn't his usual self. Very superficial, sounding a bit fake sometimes.

And that's suitable considering that Will was expecting to get back to dipping Alicia, but the door was once again slammed to his face.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Cary - I understand the big ideals he has, about the new firm. I mean the democratic guidelines he wishes to follow. But that's not the right or the best way to be the "new Will and Diane".

New Will and Diane is propably just a sales speech to Alicia. Cary used it once, and as it seemed to work (from his pov), he is using it some more.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Robyn - I like her. But not that much. Too much screen time for my taste.

Robyn is fun to watch. When Kalinda gets an idea, her face hardly changes. When Robyn figures something out, clouds make way to the bright rays of light.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Eli - I don't think the show needs him any more. I wouldn't miss him at this point of the show. He's done his work. But still, they keep inventing uninteresting ways to keep him the no actual purpose.

As long as Eli makes more promotion speeches like the one we got in the premiere, he can stay forever. This show has a political dimension and at least I happen to like it.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Peter - He was himself. Didn't add nothing to the show in terms of content.

The fact that he realized that he is still tempted by the seductive allure of power and that he got rid of Marilyn in order to commit to his marriage with Alicia, what more do you need in one episode?

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) Marilyn - The name is too obvious, and so is the point of this character. Even though I'm not a fan of Melissa George I think she was ok.

They named her Marilyn to amuse people and to underline the fact that she is a threat if media catches attention of her existence in the office. What else should they have named her, Leah-Mariah?

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) It would have been interesting to see Alicia from S1/S2 with this character. But this empty and shallow Alicia... not sure if she even cares!

*sigh* If Alicia would be the same exact person as from four years ago, people would say she hasn't evolved as a character. I feel like people look back to S1 a bit too fondly when it comes to compairing TGW of today to TGW back then.

Originally Posted by Miss Femina (View Post) A last note of regret for how the Kings treat their fans. That scene where Alicia asks Cary about Kalinda going with them to the new firm, felt like a punch in the guts! Despicable.

Some fans get offended by anything these days. There might have been a subplot opened there, there might have not been. Would Kalinda say yes if Alicia went to ask her? Just saying...

Our chats on this forum will get more interesting as the season really kicks off. Right now there just isn't that much to talk about.

[schwarmereione]

I love the fact that Alicia is complicated, contradictory and frustrating. Because that's what people are like in real life. I think it's a huge step forward to have a female protagonist on television like her. I also think double standards of gender are at play. It's still possible for an audience to root for a anti-hero who kills people like Walter White, but if someone 'nice' (and female) like Alicia Florrick does something merely self-interested parts of the audience start hating on her.

(Please note, I don't think that means you can't criticize her, or even dislike her if you wish. I just think it's tied to our expectation that women and particularly Alicia are supposed to 'good'.)

Of course everyone will feel better about all this when Kalicia gets patched up. ;-)

I think the current scenario is really well constructed. Alicia (and the fourth years) are legitimately angry at how the firm treated them about their partnerships. At the same time Diane and Will are justified in expecting Alicia's loyalty after what they've done for her. I like it when both sides are right!

[Izmar23]

What I like about these characters is that none of them are angels but they aren't terrible people either. You can dislike them if you want for personal reasons but there are arguements for both sides in terms of "bad" vs "good".
I saw a review, I forget where for 501, but the reviewer said something that I really liked. They said "it's the good guys vs. the good guys". Whatever side your taking in terms of A/C or W/D (for right now, but it could change to W/K or just W) who it is very likely that people like all four of those characters and will be contemplating which side to root for and what they want to see which is a very good idea from the writers. There is no clear cut villain or person you're supposed to root for or against and it could change episode to episode.

[rony3369]

Originally Posted by schwarmereione (View Post) I also think double standards of gender are at play. It's still possible for an audience to root for a anti-hero who kills people like Walter White, but if someone 'nice' (and female) like Alicia Florrick does something merely self-interested parts of the audience start hating on her.

i think she alsow benefet from the double standards of gender . i was thinking the other day haw would people react to the A/W story if A was the man, and this man is merried and having an afffair with a single women whos despetrtly inlove with him, and he keep coming back to her and then goes back to his wife, breaking her heart time and time again (even if he wasnt that happy in the marriage) ? i think people would be pissed much much more so as i say you win some you loose some.

[schwarmereione]

Originally Posted by rony3369 (View Post) i think she alsow benefet from the double standards of gender . i was thinking the other day haw would people react to the A/W story if A was the man, and this man is merried and having an afffair with a single women whos despetrtly inlove with him, and he keep coming back to her and then goes back to his wife, breaking her heart time and time again (even if he wasnt that happy in the marriage) ? i think people would be pissed much much more so as i say you win some you loose some.

Alicia was separated. Will had his chance to speak his feelings and didn't. He was the one who restarted it in Season 4. Women lose far more often than men do.

Sure it's all more complicated than that. But Will had his eyes open the whole time. And Alicia copped plenty of criticsm online (and JM did in person) for having an extra-marrital affair with Will.

[MistyEagle]

Originally Posted by schwarmereione (View Post) I love the fact that Alicia is complicated, contradictory and frustrating. Because that's what people are like in real life. I think it's a huge step forward to have a female protagonist on television like her. I also think double standards of gender are at play. It's still possible for an audience to root for a anti-hero who kills people like Walter White, but if someone 'nice' (and female) like Alicia Florrick does something merely self-interested parts of the audience start hating on her.

People dislike Alicia not because of her being a woman. Being a woman has nothing to do with that. People dislike her because she was depicted as someone "burdened with conscience", as Eli put it. But now she turned into judgemental (she does not like the way Will runs his business, so she runs to Peter, etc) and self-righteous hypocrite, who is going to do betray and steal from people who saved her when she needed it.

Had she been depicted as an antihero from the very beginning, things would be different now.

[Alwayshappy]

Originally Posted by Venilia (View Post) You mean once, right? When she found out Peter cheated on her, right? Seriously, this isn't directed at you or your post specifically, I'm using it because I've noticed people who like Alicia mention this often (admittedly, it's most often found in fanfiction). Let me get this straight: I like Alicia. Seriously, she's a very well developed character in comaprison to other TV characters out there. Alicia has actual flaws, she's very insecure, arrogant and entitled (my personal opinion, please don't ask me to elaborate too much), and she has mommy issues. BUT, what I actually mind, and what makes me classify her as a Mary Sue, is the fact that other characters don't react to these flaws, and those who do are viewed as the "villains" by the viewers as a rule (for lack of better word I use the term "villain" to encompass all characters viewed negatively by Alicia). Other characters simply adore Alicia. She's so super special that clients with big legal problems specifically seek her out (instead of requesting Will or Diane's personal work on their case). Alicia doesn't mess up. Ever. Alicia never suffers the consequences of her actions.

You ask me/others to elaborate, but you don't want to do it yourself?

Anyway, Kiki already mentioned a few moments where she got hurt :

- She didn't just get cheated on ONCE. Peter slept with all kind of woman.
- Including her best friend ( and Alicia is not the kind of person who easily trusts people ).
- And is reminded of it in the media A LOT. Everyone found out earlier than her. Everyone knows.
- Will and Diane treated her like ''crap'' (in her opinion anyway ) least season.
- Her complicated history with her mum.

And those are just examples. I got cheated on, only ONCE, and it changed for me at some level. Let alone if that happens to you in the amount it happened to Alicia. So easy to judge her ( and I know she isn't perfect! She does have her flaws, and I don't always like her decisions, but I always try to look each side of the story ), but you have no idea how she must feel.

I do agree with the people saying that Alicia needs someone to talk to. Since Kalinda is out of the question probably ( the best we can hope for are work scenes, and even those seem to be rare or non existence atm ), so the writers should give her another person to talk to. I thought they were trying to do that with Amanda Peet's character last season, but they threw away that chance. I thought they were trying to do that with Maura Tierney's character ( another example where Alicia got hurt - she started to trust her - and the trust was undeserved ), but they failed at that too. They should bring on her brother a bit more, or her mother....bring on someone! That's literally like one of the only problems I have with the show. I'm also a secret Diane/Alicia shipper, if it's friendship regarding. They had a scene at a bar once, and I wish they would have followed up on that a bit more by making them actual friends.

The other problem I have with the show is that I want more Kalinda. I've accepted the fact she and Alicia won't ever be friends again ( too much has happened for that ), but I'm still hoping for more work scenes, even if they are yelling toward eachother. I want something..., and even besides that...there are so many people Kalinda could share scenes with. Will. Diane. Cary. Etc. Right now she seems doomed to Cary, and Robyn and some guest star of the week, and that seems weird. I love Robyn, and I love her addition, but they should try to make the screen-time like 60%/40%, in Kalinda's favor. But I keep hoping that we see more of Kalinda later this season. I don't want her to be written out or something.

I know it isn't everyone btw, and it isn't ment in a mean way ( I purely observed it ), but a few people seem unable to seperate JM from her character. The times I heard JM talk about Archie it was always in a nice way. Alicia can't stand Kalinda, and JM only tries to think for her character, and I love it when an actor/actress knows the character they play so well, and have a real connection with it. The downside is that there are people who can't seperate her from the character, and even hate her for decisions her characters makes.

[schwarmereione]

Originally Posted by MistyEagle (View Post) People dislike Alicia not because of her being a woman. Being a woman has nothing to do with that. People dislike her because she was depicted as someone "burdened with conscience", as Eli put it. But now she turned into judgemental (she does not like the way Will runs his business, so she runs to Peter, etc) and self-righteous hypocrite, who is going to do betray and steal from people who saved her when she needed it. Had she been depicted as an antihero from the very beginning, things would be different now.

Have you watched "Breaking Bad"? Walter White did not start out as an anti-hero. He was a highly sympathetic family man facing a conundrum. Yet as I say, many viewers will defend his actions (some of which are heinous) as being justified and seem not to have noticed how far the goalposts have shifted on the character.

I still find Alicia's journey fascinating even if sometimes she does things I wish she wouldn't. I also think it's incredibly realistic in terms of her character. When one has been victimised (whether it's public humiliation, crime, ill-health, whatever you want) it's very hard to throw off that feeling the second your circumstances improve. I think in most cases it takes time and removing victimhood from your identity is a gradual process. While that's happening it's very easy to excuse your own entitled behavior because of what happened to you.

Personally, while I completely agree that Alicia of S1 and 2 is highly sympathetic and nice and you root for her, I don't necessarily think all that went along with that was admirable. She lacked agency, she wouldn't advocate for herself - she waited for things to happen. I think the woman in S4 who is confidently backing herself professionally and taking the risk of starting a new firm has much to admire. (I just hope she fixes things with Kalinda while doing it.)

The show has (I hope) several more seasons to run, so I doubt the Alicia we see now is the Alicia we will finish with in any case.

Originally Posted by Venilia (View Post) Let me get this straight: I like Alicia. Seriously, she's a very well developed character in comaprison to other TV characters out there. Alicia has actual flaws, she's very insecure, arrogant and entitled (my personal opinion, please don't ask me to elaborate too much), and she has mommy issues. BUT, what I actually mind, and what makes me classify her as a Mary Sue, is the fact that other characters don't react to these flaws, and those who do are viewed as the "villains" by the viewers as a rule (for lack of better word I use the term "villain" to encompass all characters viewed negatively by Alicia). Other characters simply adore Alicia. She's so super special that clients with big legal problems specifically seek her out (instead of requesting Will or Diane's personal work on their case). Alicia doesn't mess up. Ever. Alicia never suffers the consequences of her actions.

I don't agree with this. I suppose you might classify Julius and David Lee as 'villains' as your post describes. But Will has pulled Alicia up sometimes and you ignore Diane in your post. Diane is certainly not a villain, but has a very cautious regard for Alicia and has called out her behavior multiple times, more recently over accepting the partnership offer.

There are also minor moments that paint Alicia in a less-flattering light. Like the client in "In Sickness" who tells her that Alicia has started to really fight for her now. Or the court reporter in "Boom de yah da" who after spending days in one room tells Alicia her name.