[ChristinaL80]

Originally Posted by msstock87 (View Post) I just got so mad at what he was laying out to Pacey in that scene, it was like okay Dawson, this is obvious what you really think of your so called best friend, and you obviously don't know him at all. I didn't really like Dawson at all until season 4 when he got with Gretchen, before that I found nothing likable about him.

Gretchen should have come back for the finale.

[posterity]

I thought Dawson's magical ending with Speilberg was out of the realm of possible and it came off as contrived. I felt embarrassed for that part of the finale because it was so cheesy and lame.

[msstock87]

I would have liked to see Gretchen back, I liked her character.


The Spielberg ending, was cheesy, but I didn't mind it.

[Azaiya]

Originally Posted by msstock87 (View Post) I just got so mad at what he was laying out to Pacey in that scene, it was like okay Dawson, this is obvious what you really think of your so called best friend, and you obviously don't know him at all.

That was one of my major problems with Dawson! For all the guilt he pushed on to Pacey for 'stealing' Joey, he was NEVER his best friend. I forgot all about that speech he made on his birthday because I haven't watched season 2 in so long, but it was true. Pacey existed in Dawson's world to make Dawson feel better about himself. That's why, whenever there was any conflict, he was the first one to attack Pacey. He forgot Pacey's birthday, he called him a loser way more than once, and he never supported him.

And what made it worse was that Pacey believed it himself. And Joey, while she *did* believe in Pacey, she bought into that whole Dawson-Is-Lord crap. I recently re-watched season 3 and 4, so now I can totally see why Pacey broke up with Joey at the prom. Her mouth said she put Pacey first, but her actions told him differently. And as much as Dawson liked to think he knew Joey, Pacey also knew her very well. Dawson might have been closer to her growing up, but Pacey grew up with her too. And he didn't have on blinders like Dawson, so he was able to call her out on many things (her love for Dawson, her love for him, her residual Dawson issues, just to name a few) way before Dawson did, and way before she admitted it to herself. So when I saw Pacey break up with her the first time around I thought it came out of left field, but it totally didn't. They had to break up and they had to get away from Dawson to get to know themselves without the 'Dawson' influence.

Dawson was a terrible character, but really, growing up as an only child in a relatively affluent home with indulgent parents who did not set limits, surrounded by people who were constantly telling him how smart and how special and how talented and how wonderful he was, he really couldn't help it. And being that Joey and Pacey were the underdogs with crappy home lives, they really couldn't help buying into it either.

And as far as the finale, being that they were originally going to bring Andie back as a consolation prize for Pacey, I'm glad they chose to give Dawson a Spielberg meeting as a consolation prize instead! He may have loved Joey, but his greatest love was for himself and for movies, so that ending was just fine with me, unlikely as it was!

[posterity]

For a guy who claimed to want to live in reality, he sure did love fanfiction. Even until the end of the series he was re-creating his own history onscreen, something I found extremely offputting. The fact that he would pair his character off with Joey was a testiment to how sad he was and how he continued to live both in fantasy land and in the past. I actually think it's sad that he ended with his movies; some sort of homage to the fact that never really seemed to grow up in his actual reality.

[Azaiya]

Nah don't waste your sympathy on him. Did you see the show from the beginning? Dawson got just what he always wanted.

I'm in the middle of a series re-watch and I recently saw a season 1 episode that occurred after he and Jen broke up. Dawson mildly insulted Jen in the cafeteria, and when Pacey pointed out that wasn't the way to win back her affections, Dawson said something dismissively like, "I dunno, getting Jen back has evolved into some sort of bizarre hobby." It was funny because that was one of the few times he actually acted and sounded like a typical teenager. It also made me think, is that what happened with Joey? Aside from the fact that it wasn't that he wanted her it was that he didn't want anyone else to have her, maybe having Joey pick him over Pacey was really more a habit than an actual wish. Maybe he just couldn't believe anyone would pick Pacey over him, and still couldn't believe it eight years later, which is why he had Sam choose Colby in his show. His ultimate love was for movies, and directors are notoriously self-absorbed and married to their careers. I think he actually said that in the finale didn't he? Dawson is just fine.

[msstock87]

Joey told Dawson more than once he had to stop living in the movies, and that he needed to grow up. I think Dawson ultimately lived in his fantasy world and he was okay with that.

[ChristinaL80]

Why did Dawson even go to Pacey's 18th birthday? He didn't say a word to him the entire night.He just wanted to be near Gretchen Okay, Dawson did show some empathy when Pacey's family started their insults, but he didn't try to defend him. I just rubbed me the wrong way that he still treated Pacey as a stranger at Pacey's family home.

[msstock87]

Originally Posted by ChristinaL80 (View Post) Why did Dawson even go to Pacey's 18th birthday? He didn't say a word to him the entire night.He just wanted to be near Gretchen Okay, Dawson did show some empathy when Pacey's family started their insults, but he didn't try to defend him. I just rubbed me the wrong way that he still treated Pacey as a stranger at Pacey's family home.

I never really got that either. Dawson slowly started to become redemable in season 4 when he was with Gretchen, but I still think he could have defended Pacey more.

[You can't kill me!]

Just doing a DC re-watch and I strongly dislike Dawson. I agree with many people on here that the whole triangle thing isn't what broke the P/D friendship up.. it was purely because Dawson was a terrible friend. Some of the nasty things this kid would say to his "so called" best friend were deplorable and the fact that hardly any apologies were given for his behaviour to Pacey was unacceptable.. just ick

[msstock87]

I really wish if somewhere in the series we could have seen Dawson apologize to Pacey at least once for some of the things he had said to him, instead of Pacey always apologizing.

[Forwood4Bamon]

he's got very whiny, but I love James and he did get hot. Watch his new show everyone on march 31st friends with better lives.

[falling slowly]

Originally Posted by Azaiya (View Post) That was one of my major problems with Dawson! For all the guilt he pushed on to Pacey for 'stealing' Joey, he was NEVER his best friend. I forgot all about that speech he made on his birthday because I haven't watched season 2 in so long, but it was true. Pacey existed in Dawson's world to make Dawson feel better about himself. That's why, whenever there was any conflict, he was the first one to attack Pacey. He forgot Pacey's birthday, he called him a loser way more than once, and he never supported him. And what made it worse was that Pacey believed it himself. And Joey, while she *did* believe in Pacey, she bought into that whole Dawson-Is-Lord crap. I recently re-watched season 3 and 4, so now I can totally see why Pacey broke up with Joey at the prom. Her mouth said she put Pacey first, but her actions told him differently. And as much as Dawson liked to think he knew Joey, Pacey also knew her very well. Dawson might have been closer to her growing up, but Pacey grew up with her too. And he didn't have on blinders like Dawson, so he was able to call her out on many things (her love for Dawson, her love for him, her residual Dawson issues, just to name a few) way before Dawson did, and way before she admitted it to herself. So when I saw Pacey break up with her the first time around I thought it came out of left field, but it totally didn't. They had to break up and they had to get away from Dawson to get to know themselves without the 'Dawson' influence. Dawson was a terrible character, but really, growing up as an only child in a relatively affluent home with indulgent parents who did not set limits, surrounded by people who were constantly telling him how smart and how special and how talented and how wonderful he was, he really couldn't help it. And being that Joey and Pacey were the underdogs with crappy home lives, they really couldn't help buying into it either. And as far as the finale, being that they were originally going to bring Andie back as a consolation prize for Pacey, I'm glad they chose to give Dawson a Spielberg meeting as a consolation prize instead! He may have loved Joey, but his greatest love was for himself and for movies, so that ending was just fine with me, unlikely as it was!

I agree with a lot of what you've said here.

---------------

I do have mixed feelings because I still care about Dawson and even like Dawson and Joey



But this scenes always makes me both laugh and cry

Originally Posted by Glader|4|Life (View Post) Just doing a DC re-watch and I strongly dislike Dawson. I agree with many people on here that the whole triangle thing isn't what broke the P/D friendship up.. it was purely because Dawson was a terrible friend. Some of the nasty things this kid would say to his "so called" best friend were deplorable and the fact that hardly any apologies were given for his behaviour to Pacey was unacceptable.. just ick

I agree with this.

I think it's sad that obviously knowing about Paceys low self esteem and how things are between him and his family that he would contribute to Paceys self doubt and lack of belief in what he's capable of achieving

[Forwood4Bamon]

the only season I didn't like him was in season 3, but I think that was due to the bad writing.

[Speedychatterbox]

Originally Posted by DuVe2LoVe (View Post) the only season I didn't like him was in season 3, but I think that was due to the bad writing.

I agree he was annoying towards the end of the season, and I will say he owed Pacey an apology for his actions in that boat race, and Mitch and Gail should have made him do it regardless how he felt about Pacey, but other then then a few times over the series where his whinning annoyed me, I liked him.

I think Doug and his father were, by a long shot, worse to Pacey in my opinion then Dawson. I think if the situation was reversed and Pacey decided he wanted Andie back because he was still in love with her and Dawson got with her behind his back, Pacey would have decked him, like he did to CJ, who wasn't his friend, for sleeping with Adurey.