[Crystal Clear]

I watched this TLJ Movie Review from Ben Shapiro (he's a quick and thorough speaker, so try to keep up ) and he analyzed some interesting and divisive points about The Last Jedi and the new Star Wars trilogy in general ~

Ben Shapiro's The Last Jedi Review

Keep in mind that he only likes the Original Trilogy, and he also has a major grudge towards how Han and the original trio (in his opinion) have been cast aside to shift towards the new generation of actors, most of whom he does not like, except for Kylo Ren. However, he makes a valid point I've seen other movie critics share - that the fundamental flaw of Rey not joining Kylo when he asks her negates the whole idea being pushed foward by Rian Johnson that the Star Wars series needs change. In Shapiro's view, teasing the idea of the two of them joining forces and then not actually fulfilling it beyond that scene was a cop-out. That said, it was obvious that Disney were not going to deprive Rey of having a big friendship reunion with Finn. Joining Kylo at this stage in the movies would have cast aside that friendship she made with Finn. But I still think there is time in Episode IX for Rey to reconsider exactly what Kylo means to her and what the force means in terms of their relationship.

I wish to be clear on something: I definitely don't think that Kylo was asking Rey to join the Dark Side in the throne room - he was saying, "leave everything behind; join ME, we can create a NEW order, WE can rule the galaxy..." - he never once mentions Hux or anyone else. I genuinely believe he was asking her in the same manner that a King would ask his Queen. That's my viewpoint, and I stick by it

I think the lightsaber breaking between them was indicative of the Force warning them, "you are meant to be equals, not to be at War with each other." The fact that it went to Rey in TFA but balanced between her and Kylo in TLJ speaks volumes on the underlying meaning of their bond. They're not supposed to be enemies, and take note of the fact that Kylo Ren completely loses his temper in the scenes with Luke and Hux purely in reaction to the point where Rey leaves him behind in the throne room. (But she didn't kill him, which again, I think speaks volumes of how she COULD kill him, but WON'T.)

Ultimately, I would love to see Episode IX extend upon this connection between the two of them. Kylo's proposal was something I felt to be very sincere and heartfelt. He looked genuinely broken in their final force connection scene, when Rey disappeared on the Falcon. I've honestly not felt so moved by such intimate scenes between people in a Star Wars movie since Han and Leia in the OT.

[Foxie]

I think Rey not joining Kylo was the right call. Yes, the trilogy is about change, but still have Episode IX. I think it's all perfectly set up for it

[Crystal Clear]

Originally Posted by Foxie (View Post) I think Rey not joining Kylo was the right call. Yes, the trilogy is about change, but still have Episode IX. I think it's all perfectly set up for it

Agreed However, Shapiro (and the guys of RedLetterMedia channel agree with him) seems to think that Star Wars doesn't have the spirit to really explore different things. Originality means risking alienation of a fan base (as the backlash towards TLJ has proven). Characters talk and talk about how they need to move on from the past but in reality, Star Wars seems to rely on nostalgia of the original trio's bond in order to take the series forward without losing what it was known for. There are a whole set of issues when a franchise is trying to find new layers without negating what people loved about it in the first place. Ben just sees it as an excuse for "out with the old, in with the new."

I can understand Shapiro's frustration. It felt as if the series was taking a huge leap into the interesting unknown with the throne room drama, but couldn't quite fulfill on what it set up (Kylo and Rey briefly discuss uniting, then they end the movie pretty much the same way they started, on opposite sides). However, I don't think it's that simple - Rey is shown to be holding the broken lightsaber in a fragile demeanor, and Kylo is holding his father's dice with a melancholy expression. It's a completely open-ended set of visuals, which binds them together. There is definitely room for Episode IX to expand upon this, and I honestly believe that it all centers upon Kylo and Rey's relationship being the most significant story arc in the new trilogy. She is the key to reminding him of the fact that he really is still Ben Solo, and the Kylo Ren costume is just a facade.

[sum1]

Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (View Post) Keep in mind that he only likes the Original Trilogy, and he also has a major grudge towards how Han and the original trio (in his opinion) have been cast aside to shift towards the new generation of actors, most of whom he does not like, except for Kylo Ren.

That sounds like my viewpoint. Except I'm not particularly interested in Kylo Ren or any of the new characters. I don't dislike all the new characters, but they don't interest me. And I really don't think Rey is done right at all.

[a new hope]

Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (View Post) I definitely don't think that Kylo was asking Rey to join the Dark Side in the throne room - he was saying, "leave everything behind; join ME, we can create a NEW order, WE can rule the galaxy..." - he never once mentions Hux or anyone else. I genuinely believe he was asking her in the same manner that a King would ask his Queen. That's my viewpoint, and I stick by it

That's how I feel, too. He wanted to erase the whole thing and start fresh. He obviously wasn't in the right mind frame to do that at that point, but I wish they had talked a bit more before Rey just decided he was full on evil again and begged him not to ask him that. I hope in the last episode they both actually understand they can rule in balance and stop this dark and light nonsense.

[sum1]

Don't hold your breath.

[crash landing]

ANOTHer article and amount to read up

[Jerry D]

I'm someone who'll always prefer the Original Trilogy Movies due to my age and due to my affection for the original characters, but at the same time I don't want that to take away from my enjoyment for the new movies, which I found entertaining in their own right. I go to movies to be entertained, and the last three Star Wars Movies did entertain me, so quite frankly, that's all I care about. Now the Prequel Trilogy Movies, that's a different story!

[BehrItAll]

After seeing TFA and TLJ I didn't walk out of the theater with the same feeling of love that I had when watching the OT as a kid on VHS or after seeing the PT. I didn't hate them, but I certainly have not made the effort to see the ST as many times as I have seen the OT and PT. Like, I am still debating whether I'll go see TLJ for a second time.

[a new hope]

I think the sequels are soooo much better than the prequels that it's not even funny, so to me there's no comparison there, but of course I don't enjoy them as much as I do the OT. Those will always be my favorites

[Foxie]

So, apparently the novelisation of TLJ will contain also deleted scenes!

[sum1]

The Sequel trilogy bothers me much more than the Prequels. That's because they took the original actors and used them to screw up the Original Trilogy's happy ending. I hated what they did to Vader/Anakin in the Prequels, but that can be set aside more easily than the sequel films, which hurt more. Ultimately I set those aside too, the Original Trilogy stands alone, but the sequels still draw blood. And the Prequels however awful, were made by the inventor of Star Wars. The sequels don't have that legitimacy. And I feel they have an overly coddling mentality that is characteristic of Disney. To me they're utterly artificial films and basically fanfiction.

[Musickat18]

Originally Posted by a new hope (View Post) That's how I feel, too. He wanted to erase the whole thing and start fresh. He obviously wasn't in the right mind frame to do that at that point, but I wish they had talked a bit more before Rey just decided he was full on evil again and begged him not to ask him that. I hope in the last episode they both actually understand they can rule in balance and stop this dark and light nonsense.

My hope is that the original Jedi texts that Rey took with her on the Falcon will reveal that the original intent was a "grey jedi" code rather than being so absolute in the light and darkness. Then maybe they can see that it's not about light and dark but about bringing balance, which has been upset since Vader was created and the Jedi all but eradicated.

ETA: Oh and I love the OT, but I'm not of the mind that just because they're original they're inherently the best. Now obviously that's just my opinion and I don't mean anyone here loves the OT for that reason, but basically I just mean I'm not going to discount either the PT or ST purely based on the fact that they're newer. If they're crap, they can be crap on their own without help from nostalgia. (Honestly the more times I rewatch the PT, the more I become convinced that it's really ep 2 that's the worst of that batch of films. That god awful romance just kills things for me.)

[sum1]

Originally Posted by Musickat18 (View Post) My hope is that the original Jedi texts that Rey took with her on the Falcon will reveal that the original intent was a "grey jedi" code rather than being so absolute in the light and darkness. Then maybe they can see that it's not about light and dark but about bringing balance, which has been upset since Vader was created and the Jedi all but eradicated. ETA: Oh and I love the OT, but I'm not of the mind that just because they're original they're inherently the best. Now obviously that's just my opinion and I don't mean anyone here loves the OT for that reason, but basically I just mean I'm not going to discount either the PT or ST purely based on the fact that they're newer. If they're crap, they can be crap on their own without help from nostalgia. (Honestly the more times I rewatch the PT, the more I become convinced that it's really ep 2 that's the worst of that batch of films. That god awful romance just kills things for me.)

The Original Trilogy, being there first, set the standard. If the newer films can't live up to that standard they don't deserve respect. And in my opinion they don't, at all. The OT showed what Star Wars is and JJ and company haven't a clue how to get it right. The original Star Wars trilogy has a certain magic that has never beeen recreated. These newer films will never be classics the way the original films are. They're lost amid the morass of blockbuster entertainment out there nowadays. The original trilogy was something new and different in its time in a way these new films aren't. And the Original Trilogy offered a deep, winning humanity, while these newer films offer only a coddling sentimentality. Once something like BB8 shows up in a film you know you're not in a film that means it for real.

[Tech Noir]

While I did enjoy the sequels, gotta say, it’s been kind of a bummer to see fans throw the OT trio under the bus with comments about how Han and Leia were terrible parents who abandoned their child, and how Luke was single-handedly responsible for all of Kylo Ren’s ruthless actions. That these would be the lasting impressions of Han, Leia, and Luke is just too sad to think about.