[kiamay]

Originally Posted by Chris (View Post) While somebody could casually watch episodes and not be lost, knowing the history certainly adds something to the experience.

[Chris]

Another advantage is that perhaps the continuity references would encourage somebody who started watching one of the later seasons to go back and watch the previous seasons.

[kiamay]

What I like is that you can still watch and understand the episode without previous knowledge. With other shows you can be completely lost but Voyager works without much info. The experience of watching an episode may differ but it can still be a nice watch

[Chris]

Originally Posted by kiamay (View Post) The experience of watching an episode may differ but it can still be a nice watch

That's what I was trying to say.


I really need to try and rewatch the first season.

[DigificWriter]

I've had an opportunity to read through a copy of the original Voyager Series Bible, and the show was originally conceived of as being and intended to be much more like Deep Space Nine.

Making the show as originally conceived would've allowed it to live up to the fullest extent of its premise, but I happen to think that the writers and producers hit on an equally good concept by making it into a Serialized Procedural instead of something like, say, B5 or DS9 as was originally intended, even if doing so consequently resulted in the fullest extent of the premise going unrealized.

I'm in the middle of watching Maneuvers right now, and I have to say that despite all the flack they tend to get from fans, the Kazon are among my favorites of the recurring antagonist species who ran afoul of the Voyager crew.

I think they're great, and they really remind me of a cross between the Nausicans and the Jem'Hadar, with the slightest bit of Cardassian tossed in as well, which makes it even more ironically awesome that Seska joined forces with the Nistrim sect given that she was an actual Cardassian.

People also tend to complain that their 'sphere of influence' was stretched too far, but I've never really understood that mentality, especially since there were so many different sects and even very different divisions within sects, a case in point being the fact that Jabin's Kazon-Ogla and Razik & Haliz's Kazon-Ogla were vastly different from each other.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by DigificWriter (View Post) the show was originally conceived of as being and intended to be much more like Deep Space Nine.

I didn't realize that. Honestly though, I've never been a big DS9 fan and I much prefer the premise of being lost in the Delta Quadrant.


Can't say I particularly liked the Kazon, but they were a good villain, and it made sense for the Voyager crew to have repeat contact with a space faring species.

[kiamay]

I feel the same way. Rather happy they didn't go with the DS9 concept.

[DigificWriter]

@Chris: What I meant by my comment concerning the Series Bible is that, structurally, the 'Lost in the Delta Quadrant' premise of Voyager was initially envisioned as playing itself out in a heavily serialized fashion (ala DS9).

[Chris]

oh, as I mentioned, I'm not very familiar with DS9.

Do you have a favourite season of Voyager?

[DigificWriter]

I haven't seen enough of the series in a coherent-enough fashion to say, but I have really enjoyed my (re)watch-through of the first two seasons thus far (I'm currently on Threshold).

Speaking of, I haven't finished it yet, but I'm really not feeling the near-universal hated for the episode. Maybe I'm weird this way, but I like 'crazy Sci-Fi madness', and (de)evolving into a Lizard Man and kidnapping a mate - who just so happens to be your superior - is, IMO, the perfect recipe for exactly that.

I don't think the science actually matters with the episode, just as it doesn't matter with stuff like the Men in Black movies and Mars Attacks, nor would I want it to.

I just know somebody is going to come along and cite this episode as evidence of Voyager's lack of continuity, but I don't see any issues with it never being mentioned again, and look at it as being something that just isn't discussed EVER and that both parties have intentionally given themselves 'selective amnesia' on.

[Chris]

I think there may be a future reference to Paris & Janeway becoming lizards and mating.

Originally Posted by DigificWriter (View Post) I don't think the science actually matters with the episode, just as it doesn't matter with stuff like the Men in Black movies and Mars Attacks, nor would I want it to.

As long as there's a good storyline, with good acting and decent effects, I can buy into it. Using Star Wars as an example, I found the original trilogy easy to ... believe maybe isn't quite the right word. I found it harder to get into the prequels with all the fantasy creatures done in cgi - it just seemed like too much. Did that make sense?

[DigificWriter]

Having now finished Threshold, I have to say that, even if its specific events are never referenced again (which I don't believe they are), I do feel like the episode had resonance in other ways over the course of the remainder of the series, particularly with regards to Tom's character. I've seen enough of the later seasons of Voyager, if not always in the most coherent fashion, to have a decent understanding of who Tom is as a character, and, as I think over his arc and development, especially with regards to his relationship with B'Elanna and his development up to the point where this episode's events start, I very much feel like this episode's events were the catalyst for him eventually figuring out who he really was and for him taking the steps to make that realization a reality.


Also, I know that a lot of people complain about the whole 'Lizard Babies' thing, but, personally, I thought that particular bit was one of the best things about the episode and was the 'cherry on top' of the 'crazy Sci-Fi madness' that was the rest of the episode, much like the climax of Mars Attacks where the key to defeating the Martians turns out to be crappy elevator music.

I also wish that Star Trek had done more of the kinds of 'crazy Sci-Fi madness' stories that this episode represents, because I think all Sci-Fi ought to explore this kind of 'crazy Sci-Fi madness' story at least once.

[Chris]

hmm ... I don't know. While a sci-fi fan is obviously willing to use their imagination and is willing to take some leaps of faith to accept storylines, if they get too far out there, I think you lose people.

[DigificWriter]

I've reached the home stretch of Season 2, having just finished Innocence. I have to be honest and admit that it took me several days to finish the episode, and I wasn't expecting to like it, but it ended up being a lot better as a whole than I anticipated, although the strongest parts of the episode are by far Tuvok's interaction with Tressa and her companions.

It was nice seeing Taj Mowry in something independent of his older sisters and that's not a comedic role, although his natural comic timing does shine through at certain points, which actually makes you connect with his character.

It was also neat to get some insight into 'Tuvok the father', which we don't really get to see again in the series,

As an aside, To the Journey just posted their latest episode, which is all about the 5 episodes of the series that they would pick to 'marathon' in one sitting, and, inspired by their discussion, I've put together my own 'marathon playlist' that I figured I'd share:
Caretaker (my second-favorite Star Trek pilot HAS to be the first thing I watch because it perfectly 'sets the table' for the show and is a superb episode)
Elogium (I love Kes and Neelix, and this episode is great because it develops both of their characters even though the focus is primarily on Kes)
Threshold (as I said earlier, I'm a sucker for crazy Sci-Fi madness', and Threshold perfectly provides that, as well as some really good character development for Tom)
The Voyager Conspiracy (I absolutely love this episode; not only is it Seven-centric, which is good since I love her character, it's a really good example of how to use the 'clip show' format to perfect effect even though it's not your typical 'clip show')
Endgame (I know a lot of people don't like this episode and think it was a fairly weak finale, but I'm not one of them; I love time travel episodes in general, but when you couple the time travel with great character development - particularly for Janeway - and action, you've very much got a winning formula; it also doesn't hurt that it follows up on a plot thread that I personally happen to find really enjoyable even if it does admittedly come a bit out of 'left field', which is the Chskotay/Seven relationship)

What 5 episodes would you guys pick to 'marathon'?

[Chris]

I'd start with Caretaker too.
Blood Fever - this is the episode that sold me on Tom & B'Elanna
The Q and the Grey - love the opening scene with Q in Janeway's bed
Body and Soul - the EMH hiding in Seven's body!

um, I'll have to think about #5.