Shi_fs

Here's the thing - if Jess wanted out, I can get being killed off: leaving without dying would have probably required some storyline that has Tom leaving as well, and I'd kinda rather not lose two characters that I love. But judging by Jessica Fellowes tweet from earlier today it did come as a shock to the cast, and had Jessica wanted to leave I can't imagine they would have been so surprised by it.

I get wanting to shock viewers and make things dramatic, but I don't get what it contributes to the plot long term.

alertthecorgis

I was sitting here looking at this reply square for the longest time, trying to figure out a way this could be salvaged for me. Can't be made right, just salvaged. Because just seeing the pictures of them together is depressing the hell out of me. I dunno...maybe I could handle this, if

1.) I get to see Tom and Sibeal together and she brings him the joy I wanted to keep seeing with S/T (and I want him to call her Sibeal because Sybil hurts too much for me to hear another person close to Tom called that...it ain't gonna happen though). I want him to be seen working toward a better future for her...always wanted this, but before with both her parents doing it
2.) the Crawley women rally to his assistance and love/accept him for who he is, not what they want him to be...like Sybil
3.) Tom and Matthew get really close
4.) Carson and Robert to eat crow and choke on it (mean, but just had a fit of anger...sorry) I used to really like these two...maybe, someday, I will again
5.) Tom to get back to Ireland and become inordinately successful as a writer

I'll proabably think of more later, but that's my wish list for now. Note: I have a terrible track record for getting what I want. Perhaps my demands are too high.

ScarletCourt

alertthecorgis - maybe that's why she's referred to as Sybbie in the audition tape?

I think Tom/Matthew are already very close.

Shi_fs

I am now daring to watch the episode, and knowing what's coming I want to strangle the doctor and Robert. So frustrating.

ETA: two doctors and a nurse in one room and they don't even have some sort of an instinctive reaction to try and help her, even if there's "nothing to be done"? Really?

ScarletCourt

Good luck! I think you need to watch it once at least. I think it was easier to watch it live.

alertthecorgis

I think I am going to walk the dog and try to go to sleep. Talk to you all tomorrow after work. Thanks for spending this time here. Would have gone bonkers with no one to "talk" to/commiserate with.

ScarletCourt

Goodnight, alertthecorgis!

In retrospect, Sybil's letter in the Chronicles about "the joy of joys" is so heartbreaking.

You know you're in a state when writing Sybil in the past tense brings a flood of tears.

Shi_fs

And what you'd call being completely aware of what was going on in the episode, reading all the forum posts first so you knew exactly what was going to happen and how and still bowling your eyes out watching it?

A few of my British friends (not from DA fandom) actually texted me to see how I was doing because they knew from the past how much I loved Sybil.

loveigniting

I'm trying to explain to my roommate who's trying hard to commiserate - she loved the Ponds but that doesn't even compare - why I feel so sad. Sybil didn't get to live in any time period. She died young and her child and her husband have to live on without her.

I get the painful realism of a young life cut short but rewatching some of the scenes, it hurts to realize how easily how this could be avoided. Also, the inaccuracy of how eclampsia was portrayed is appalling. She shouldn't even died the way she died if they stuck to realism.

And for all those that say that this episode showed the dangers of patriarchy, it still doesn't change the fact that a suffragette and a proto-feminist who dared to break the rules of class was killed off in freaking childbirth. It seems like punishment to me.

I'm perverse enough that this makes me ship them even harder. But then, half my ships only became my ships when one of them died. I'm generally in the habit of gravitating towards tragedy when I pick my ships but that wasn't why I shipped Sybil/Tom. They were supposed to be a vibrant, egalitarian couple that fought for change. They weren't supposed to join the ranks of my many tragic ships! Sorry, guys. I thought I was dealing with it but I guess I'm not.

ScarletCourt

Just tell me that I can go to work tomorrow and not think about Sybil and act like nothing has happened. Thank goodness I'm not pregnant like some of the other S/T fans. If I were close, I might have gone into labour!

The whole problem I have with this plot point is that it seems so senseless. I understand that it will drive Robert and Cora apart (and she still doesn't know about Jane) and Tom will have Cora and Mary on their side, etc., but like I just said on TWoP, I feel like life has just been snuffed for being a good person who saw good in others and being in a loving marriage. It would be tragic in real life, but this is a story controlled by a single writer who had the power of life or death over her and it feels like he chose death for simple shock value.

The worse part of it all is that we spent the last week worried about the possibility rather than looking forward to the upcoming episode. Seems like the fandom has been in mourning since early last week. I dunno. Maybe because I have so many things on my plate, but I think of a better use of my time than spending a week not looking forward to an episode and then be faced with the awful truth and mourn for a long time to come.

Shi_fs

It's the second time in a month a show is killing half of a favorite ship and honestly I don't even have too many ships. My nerves have reached full capacity. Maybe I just get invetsed in couples that are doomed.

loveigniting

Yes. Sybil's death was a plot point. Ofc, everything in a show is a plot point but her death wasn't even about her, you know?

Shi_fs

Obviously anything that happens in the show can serve as a starting point to some plot lines. But I am trying what long term story lines they have that really require this to happen in order to achieve them and how big they are to require such an extreme action. Spooks, for example, was notorious for killing off its characters, but A. it was a show revolving around people doing very dangerous things, so, you know, part of the deal, and B. it had a revolving door setup where people came and went, so even if someone main in the cast were gone, you sort of knew it was part of the deal and they established it very very early on in the first season. But otherwise killing off a main character that has much following seems quite senseless to me, especially with a lot of the Sybil/Tom relationship having so much with the themes of the show - change and blurring the lines, and they would have served as a much better line being a constant reminder of that than serving as the tragedy of the hour. If they wanted to bring a tragedy I'm sure they could have arranged something tragic enough to shake the house without pushing viewers away.

ScarletCourt

Yup! I know what you're saying. The whole points was to move other characters forward (as sadly Sybil said to both Tom and Cora tonight).

I just think that JF doesn't realizes the impact of this death. The average age of his fanbase went significantly down with Downton and if he didn't think that it will upward tick soon, then he's in for a shock.

diamond gothic

Oh goodness, The Ponds doesn't compare at all. They had a happy ending, it was only sad for the Doctor. They got to spend from like 10 years old to their 80s together. They got to see their daughter grow up as Mels and become River (even if they missed her as a baby)...but they adopted Anthony so they still got to raise a child togther.

Sybil/Tom only had the years where he tried to win her, then only 1 year of marriage and only one time of being with their baby girl and she dies.

Not the same thing. We got to see Amy/Rory grow and come full circle and get a proper and satisfying ending that managed to make us "feel" and yet be happy.