galesgirl645

I don't think Lindsay really had a plan, she just didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings which in the end that's what she ended up doing.

WildRose

Maybe she should have thought of something before she asked Brian to be the father of her baby, esp since according to what Michael says in the pilot Brian wasn't exactly sober at that point when he agreed to do it

And if Lindsay would think things over she would pbbly realized they needed some sort of agreement with Brian before the baby was born and not after, since things got really confusing for all of them later on.

galesgirl645

I don't think a sober Brian would've agreed to a baby with Lindsay

WildRose

I agree, but than I love how in the 'I'm killing you with kindness' scene Brian admits he didn't think he would love Gus so much

soulmatejunkee

I think Brian would've agreed even when he was sober. There's barely anything he wouldn't do for Lindsay.

Sure, that's difficult. But would you then go the person your partner dislikes so much and ask him to become the father of your child? Isn't that kind of a betrayl? It's one thing to be in a situation like having a partner that doesn't like your best friend; but it's completely different to ignore that and going on with what you want.

It's selfish!

I never got the impression that she came up short with Brian. It was only once that she told him he wasn't suppsed to be the "father", that Gus was meant to be hers and Mels kid. Once!

That's not much compared to Melanie.

WildRose

I agree that Brian would do it for Lindsay even if he was sober, but they bpply needed to think things over more clearly before. Still I like the fact Brian is Gus' father.

I guess the whole issue of having a baby with your best friend as the father was much more complicated for M/L since they were a couple (I mean 'romantically ) and not Lindsay and Brian. Plus for Mel there was an element of competition with Brian because he gave Lindsay something she could never give.

soulmatejunkee

Which is what?
Lindsay had a crush on Brian, that was all. And she didn't even hide it, which of course made Melanie even more insecure.

So Lindsay didn't do anything to help Melanie in their situation.

WildRose

I meant Brian was able to be the father of a baby, and Mel couldn't, for obvious reasons

Lindsay obviously had a crush on Brian and he definitely had a soft spot for her so that didn't make things easier for M/L I guess.

soulmatejunkee

No no, I won't start the "Brian as a father"-discussion again

The way Lindsay handled the situation in Season 1 was just wrong IMO.

Manu9

I believe too that Brian would have given Lindsay a child even if she had asked him when he was sober. Maybe he would have made her insist more, but I think he would have done it anyway, in the end.


I said too that it was a wrong choice towards Melanie. Probably it even is selfish, as you say, but if I put myself in her shoes, I'd like to have a dear friend as the father of my child too, instead of a complete stranger. So I don't feel like condamning her for that. She made a similar choice later, choosing a man she knew instead of a stranger. And even more, she let Michael kept his rights, which was totally selfish towards Lindsay, who ended up having no rights. But Lindsay let it go in that situation, understanding, unlike Mel with Lindsay and Brian's child.

I think the real mistake was another one: not putting the agreement down on paper before the baby was born. Melanie is a lawyer, she should know better. I think she underestimated Brian, I guess she never thought Brian would want to have a role as a father, but it was a mistake not to have papers writter before Gus was born. And a reiterated mistake to wait a while after Gus was born.

soulmatejunkee

And Brian's her only friend?

Wouh... these are two completely different situations!!
And Lindsay never ended up with no rights!

Melanie didn't choose or decided anything without Lindsay. And it wasn't Melanie who said "Hey, we give him the rights, whatever he wants. It's that or nothing" (as Lindsay did with Brian being the father), they talked about that together. I don't remember exactly who said what, but I remember them both standing in front of Michael and telling him that he's going to be the father. And Lindsay did not look uncomfortable with that (while Melanie was 100% uncomfortable with Brian being Gus' father).

And ... Lindsay did get the same rights as Michael and Melanie when Michael decided to start a fight for J.R. That they ended in that situation is also not completely Melanie's fault. With lying about their relationship she has to take a part of the blame, but all in all, it's not her fault.

This I agree. They should've done the paper stuff before the baby was born. We've never been told why they didn't, right?

But in the end that doesn't change the fact that in Season 1 I can totally understand Melanies insecurity and I really do not like Lindsay here. I have my problems with people who aren't able to even once raise their voice to say "STOP!" (which she should've done to BOTH, Mel and Brian) and then in the end want pity because things went wrong and they end up alone...

WildRose

I think Mel is one of the characters I've come to understand more over time and even though I don't always agree with her I can understand where her insecurities came from. That doesn't mean she didn't take wrong decisions but she had to deal with the way Lindsay handled things (including the whole french guy situation... ) .

One thing I have to say in favor of Mel is that she really loved Gus and was so devoted and to him. He brought out her tender side, at least in S1.

Manu9

The French guy situation was awful. That's when I really wanted to slap Lindsay. She has an ex wife because that's what Mel basically is, even though not legally, and a best friend, both people who would do anything to help her and the baby, because both Mel and Brian love Lindsay and Gus. And still, she makes such a ridiculous thing. That's when I don't understand Lindsay at all.


Not the only one, but the best. Actually, we only saw her interact with the gang and she was really close only to Brian. I think it's understandable she preferred him as father of her child than the others.


I didn't say the situations were the same but just that both Mel and Lindsay made similar choices when it came to choose the father of their child: they went with someone they knew and loved. Lindsay picked Brian, Mel picked Michael. Mel didn't pick a stranger either, did she? That's what I meant, that it's normal, understandable, that Lindsay wanted someone she knew, just like Mel did.

About the rights, Lindsay got visitation rights but she never was the legal mother, as Mel became with Gus. I know it doesn't depend on Mel that Michael wanted to keep his rights, but the truth is that Lindsay didn't make all the fuss Mel did in S1 instead. That's because Lindsay is more generous than Mel, I think, and less possessive. Mel wasn't able to make the same sacrifice for Gus and Brian that Lindsay did for Michael and JR.

Also, Lindsay never said "it's this or nothing" for Brian's rights. She did it for having a kid, just like Mel refused to have Brian as the father of her own child. Both had strong ideas about who the father of their children should be. Lindsay told Brian he should have given Mel the rights too, but just as Mel couldn't force Michael, Lindsay couldn't force Brian. The difference is: Lindsay let Michael "win" without yelling and crying and blaming Mel, while Mel did all that with Lindsay towards Brian.

Honestly, Mel wasn't perfect in either situation, just as Lindsay. With the difference that in the second situation, Lindsay was able to rise above, something that Mel never could, because the father of Lindsay's child was Brian. But being Lindsay the one that had to carry the baby and give it birth, I think it is normal that she had a right to pick the man she wanted. It wasn't ideal for Mel and I understand that and I know Lindsay, logically, should have picked someone else. But again, she was the one carrying the baby.
Just think, Lindsay wanted their children to be blood related but Mel said absolutely no to Brian. It's not much different than Lindsay saying no to another man but Brian for her own child.



No, I don't think so. I think it's because they never thought Brian would get attached to the baby. None of them imagined it, not even Brian himself.



My defending Lindsay doesn't mean I don't understand Mel's insecurities. I do, and I feel really bad for her at the hospital and later when Brian refuses to give her the rights to Gus. But at the same time, I also understand Lindsay. She is VERY close to Brian, in S1 like before and after. Hers is not an easy situation to handle, because she loves both. Whatever she does, she ends up wronging one of the other or even both.
I really think that mostly, it's Mel and Brian that both deserve to be slapped at times, because they often act like children, especially in S1. The three of them shared a child but Lindsay was very often the only one trying to keeo the peace and to keep both of them into the kid's life, which was the thing that mattered the most, in my opinion.

P.S. We ended up talking about later seasons again, which we shouldn't do in here. Maybe we should have a thread dedicated to the kids and the parental situation? It's not the first time we discuss about this but I don't think we have a thread really right for it now.

soulmatejunkee

Look Manu, this is all not wrong what you're saying, but the main point still is, that both situations are completely different.

Lindsay and Michael were friends. So of course there never had been such a tension and jealousy between them. Under normal circumstances (without cheating!) there aren't any problems with this trio and Michael is not Melanie's crush nor her best friend.

On the other hand... Melanie and Brian hadn't been friends and didn't go along very well when Lindsay becided to make Brian the father. And Lindsay knew that, but kept defending Brian all the time and caused the already growing insecurities in Melanie even more. Lindsay also didn't do anything to help Melanie to get some rights for Gus. Sometimes it seemed that she was just waiting for Brian to say "O come on, lets become a real family"! And if that's how I felt during Season 1 - I'm not surprised that Melanie might feel the same.

WildRose

I think Mel and Brian were more alike than either of them care to admit and that's pbbly why they confronted each other all the time...

It's so sad to know that after Brian gave up his parental rights things only gotten worst between M/L.

I love the idea of having a "Parents/kids" thread