Queer As Folk - Brian and Justin #197...still a better love story than Twilight - Page 18

**Giotto** · 08-03-2019, 11:38 AM

I'm old.. I can't remember.. but are Teenagers really like that?

**SojournHeart11** · 08-03-2019, 02:33 PM

It depends.

I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! · 08-03-2019, 08:29 PM

I'm sure some of it has to do with him being so young, especially in the beginning, and not yet solidified in who he is. He also still had yet to gain ANY relationship experience, so I guess it does make sense that he'd have to figure everything out as he went along, like everyone else. But the way it applies to him and Brian sometimes just seems so frustratingly contradictory, to the point that I completely understand Brian's eyerolling over it in season 5 (though it wasn't the most compassionate response, for sure).

I admire Justin TONS for not letting his wanting to get married cloud his love for Brian AS Brian in the end. He wouldn't allow him to sacrifice who he was at his core to try to save their relationship. He'd rather him have remained true to himself, and had a real shot at happiness, even if it meant they parted ways.

That's true love.

**Giotto** · 08-04-2019, 02:16 AM

and I think those are things that don't fit together for me.. I understand Justins "teenaged" behaviour in the early seasons, but in season 5 he was older, and even more mature with working and being in hollywood and so on.. you normally don't regress back to being a teenager anymore then.. in my eyes

**SojournHeart11** · 08-05-2019, 09:05 PM

I don't think Justin knew what he wanted half the time.

I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! · 08-05-2019, 09:27 PM

Agreed. And that's SO evident in the end of season 2, like we were discussing earlier. He was so easily swayed to one side or the other, and then back again.

So...as much as Brian was unfair in accusing Mikey directly of "infecting" Justin, I DO agree that his lifestyle influenced Justin's desires after a certain point. Not that it's his fault, or that Brian should blame him. But still, he had somewhat of a point, there.

**Giotto** · 08-06-2019, 01:53 AM

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Originally Posted by I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! (View Post)

Agreed. And that's SO evident in the end of season 2, like we were discussing earlier. He was so easily swayed to one side or the other, and then back again.

So...as much as Brian was unfair in accusing Mikey directly of "infecting" Justin, I DO agree that his lifestyle influenced Justin's desires after a certain point. Not that it's his fault, or that Brian should blame him. But still, he had somewhat of a point, there.

all our lifes get influenced from our surroundings and people we spend time with.. so that of course happened here.. and Justin was a guy who grew up in a real home, so why wouldn't he want one his own one day.. but you also make compromises for the one you love .. and that also should be on both sides, not just one

aśka · 08-06-2019, 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by SojournHeart11 (View Post)

Justin is such a quandary. He's hard to figure out, and it will take a lot more than what I have right now to determine why he changed up so much.

A part of me wants to be believe it's because he was still growing during this time... body and mind, because he was only 22 years old at the series end. He grew up with those values he developed watching his parents (before they got divorced) interact, and that's what he had always wanted. I just think he put some of those value or ideas of romance to sleep when he got with Brian because he was so taken by Brian's charisma and charm, and he saw Brian's rebellious streak as liberating... as a departure from what he grew up with. But deep down inside, he always wanted monogamy but just didn't voice these desires until much later. I think he also tended to be influenced by what others were doing with their lives.

I see it in a different light. At the beginning Justin was Justin, and then they started to change his character to make drama. For me real Justin woudln't fall in "love" for Ethan and later all this sh.it. :/ It's the worst for me, because it wasn't him with being so emotionally floathing.

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Originally Posted by I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! (View Post)

I admire Justin TONS for not letting his wanting to get married cloud his love for Brian AS Brian in the end. He wouldn't allow him to sacrifice who he was at his core to try to save their relationship. He'd rather him have remained true to himself, and had a real shot at happiness, even if it meant they parted ways.

That's true love.

Brian would never do somehing he didn't want so for me saying that he would sacrifice himself is overacting. I mean I would personally prefer for them to stay the way they used to be, but people changing. And Brian alone at the end is the most heartbreaking, because he deserved to be happy. He had hard life and he was the one who deserved it the most, and he stayed with nothing and no one. After all this 5 years I can't believe he would be happy with his old life and without Justin.
I'm sure they could and definitely should stay together at their own terms. I never uderstand what all the drama was created, only to show it meant nothing? Because if they really did go on with separate ways then... I would wish for them to never met.
I can't stand that Brian was alone and with all this stupid narration at the end. It's haunting me every day and I tried to see some sense or logical or fuc.king anything but all I found is tragic ending which doesn't have any fuc.king sense and was so out of characters.

And I never was a fan of marriage endings or family as conventional family.
But I'm sure they could and should be together and I can't see a reason why any of them would sacrifice himself. And that's why I can't survive the final, it was all forced. Brian and Justin would be fine and happy, but of course for some reason they needed drama and tragic.

I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! · 08-06-2019, 01:27 PM

I believe Justin changed, pretty radically, when he got bashed. He didn't even go to therapy for it (at least not psychiatric care), which he probably DESPERATELY needed. He was probably feeling more and more vulnerable towards the end of season 2 due to his unresolved issues, and then Ethan swooped in with his promises of romance and he was easily swept up in that BS.

Hmm. I also believe that Brian was shaken by the bombing, to the point of it making him think about Justin potentially dying, and how much he couldn't stand to lose him. I think it made him behave in a truly out of character fashion, and thus he proposed. Justin even calls him out on it, and I believe his analysis was spot on.

I have to disagree about Brian being unhappy at the end. I think of all the characters, Brian had the best potential to remain "happily" single, even after having fallen for someone. He does go down that road of "I can't live without you" for a minute, but in the end he realizes that's not ultimately what he wants. If marriage meant playing house in the country, he'd have slowly died inside, no matter how much he loved Justin.

I think it was special that they met and fell for each other and changed each other irreversibly. Brian's life was much better off for having met Justin, even if he ended up not being with him. And Justin learned SO much from Brian, and Brian helped him to be an out-and-proud homosexual.

HOWEVER, if you mean you wish that they could've just gone on the same way they'd always been-I'd have to agree with you, that would've been ideal.

If none of the "I want kids/marriage/etc." stuff EVER popped up, I think they would've been fine. BUT I also think Brian's character was partly there to portray the portion of the population (gay OR straight) who doesn't conform to societal standards, and would be unhappy if forced to abide by tradition, even WITH the love of their life.

I love that Brian is the only single one at the end. I think that's so true to his character, and I see him as empowered at the end, dancing up there in his restored Babylon by himself. He's the lion once again.

aśka · 08-08-2019, 11:26 AM

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Originally Posted by I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! (View Post)

I believe Justin changed, pretty radically, when he got bashed. He didn't even go to therapy for it (at least not psychiatric care), which he probably DESPERATELY needed. He was probably feeling more and more vulnerable towards the end of season 2 due to his unresolved issues, and then Ethan swooped in with his promises of romance and he was easily swept up in that BS.

Hmm. I also believe that Brian was shaken by the bombing, to the point of it making him think about Justin potentially dying, and how much he couldn't stand to lose him. I think it made him behave in a truly out of character fashion, and thus he proposed. Justin even calls him out on it, and I believe his analysis was spot on.

I have to disagree about Brian being unhappy at the end. I think of all the characters, Brian had the best potential to remain "happily" single, even after having fallen for someone. He does go down that road of "I can't live without you" for a minute, but in the end he realizes that's not ultimately what he wants. If marriage meant playing house in the country, he'd have slowly died inside, no matter how much he loved Justin.

I think it was special that they met and fell for each other and changed each other irreversibly. Brian's life was much better off for having met Justin, even if he ended up not being with him. And Justin learned SO much from Brian, and Brian helped him to be an out-and-proud homosexual.

HOWEVER, if you mean you wish that they could've just gone on the same way they'd always been-I'd have to agree with you, that would've been ideal.

If none of the "I want kids/marriage/etc." stuff EVER popped up, I think they would've been fine. BUT I also think Brian's character was partly there to portray the portion of the population (gay OR straight) who doesn't conform to societal standards, and would be unhappy if forced to abide by tradition, even WITH the love of their life.

I love that Brian is the only single one at the end. I think that's so true to his character, and I see him as empowered at the end, dancing up there in his restored Babylon by himself. He's the lion once again.

I never saw them as a couple who plays standard house or house at all. After all they've been through I can't see Brian happy or Justin happy after the final.
With Brian's proposal - for sure he was scared that Justin could die, but from the other hand, people who resist against something can change their minds and skip all the steps who are "normal" for regular people. And Brian was a person who could do that, but for me I would prefer they not get married and even if they did then with their own, old "rules" (basically no rules at all).
And Brian would never do something he didn't want to. And I think it was no exeption, even when circumstances were rough. I'm saying that because I know this type of the people, and if they changing their minds usually their doing it in not conventional way. It's something that is common for people out of standards.

We saw Brian unhappy and we know how he loved Justin and how hard for him it was each time when he was alone so this time wouldn't be any easier. It's something I analyse so many times and I can't see him happy, especially after all this 5 fuc.king years.
And for Justin, for me him leaving is the biggest joke ever. He never dream about fame or fuc.king money, about fuc.king NY. And there is no way he could leave Brian after everything he was willing to do for him. He definitely would stay, knowing that after all this years he don't want Brian to change that much for him.

So for me they would stay together, and figure it all out. Justin finally understand how much Brian loved him and would stop acting like little ignorant. I really hate what they did to him in the last season. And agree Justin could need help after bashing, but still it's not explain his leaving with Ethan. It was out of his character. It was more that obvious that Brian loved him and I believe he would want him to admit it, say it, but there was no space for such a drama. Even when they created the situations in the last episodes of the second season... It just wasn't the real Justin. His character was changed in a bad way and I hate it. I never understand why cheating, leaving, dating someone else is such a good idea to keep the characters apart and messy stuff. On the way they forgot how they created him and pushed him into someone who he never was. It's sad and unfair that they made him be a liar, cheater. He was always honest kid and chasing what he wanted. He wasn't one of this who can fall in love again and again. It was low and cheap, like real Justin disappear and someone else took control over him, but hey, it's not a fantasy or science fiction tv show...

I really hate myself for watching the final. It haunt me every day and I tried to see the final in better light. But much more I'm thinking about it, much more sure I am that it doesn't have any sense and was forced. Can't understand wht they didn't let them stay together, happy with what they have. Instead they showed how meanless it all was. That's how I feel about it and it's hard for me to even talked about it here.

**Giotto** · 08-15-2019, 12:27 AM

bringing that over from Gale/Randys thread to continue our thoughts

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Originally Posted by I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! (View Post)

Well, I'm personally torn myself. I'm a believer in "leaving well-enough alone", and not doing remakes of things that I love, because there's always a huge chance of messing them up or tainting them. Like for example, if they did do a reunion, Brian and Justin would be at a different point in their storyline, and that would most certainly please SOME people and really upset OTHER people. Like, there's a certain scenario that would be disappointing/upsetting to me, but others would love, and vice-versa.

That being said, others are way more passionate than me about not bringing it back. I'd still be stoked to see what they'd come up with, and to see them all together again would just be

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Originally Posted by SojournHeart11 (View Post)

There are plenty of films that I love that got ruined by remakes. It definitely deviates from the original spirit of a show or film. There's far too many happening right now, and you can tell that not enough thought and creativity went into making the remake special. On rare occasion, they're done just right, but that's only if the writers, producers, and directors are committed to retaining the originality of the plot, keeping the same actors, and improves even more from the last time. It ain't easy.

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Originally Posted by aśka (View Post)

I support QAF Reunion, but I don't have any hope. Mostly I would not see it, I'm sure they would continue the final, which I can't stand, understand and everything.
But being honest I can't imagine they would make of them typical "heterosexual" kind of couple - which would be so wrong and not them. So at this point I don't think writers could show us some sh.it.

Brian would be still Brian and Justin would be still Justin, and I pray to the universe to not mess his character even more, but here we go - don't have that much faith when already they messed him so many fuc.king times.

I mean Justin.
So Chris, you should stay calm, I would be shocked if Cowlip would go any other way.

It was nice to think about dreams come true, and it's hard to get back to reality.

And I don't let myself never gone too far with this. I just stuck and there's no place to go from here.

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Originally Posted by SojournHeart11 (View Post)

Personally, I don't think there's one coming. It would have already gotten out to us. But I still hold up lots of hope because crazier things have been rebooted.

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Originally Posted by fmaldy24 (View Post)

It's true that it would be difficult/interesting to write how everyone ended up and I agree Chris that you can't please everyone with the show. But I am thinking they messed up the ending and Brian and Justin so much that it would be hard for the writers I think to fix it all up

.

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Originally Posted by I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! (View Post)

I think honestly the writers already gave Brian and Justin the ending they honestly wanted and believed in, and maybe it really is annoying to get requests for a reunion, because that's probably the reason lots of fans want it - because they want a sense of closure between them.

It would bother me IMMENSELY if they brought it back just so Brian and Justin could get married. I'd want to snap my DVDs.

They were written the way they were for a reason . . . because it was true to their characters. They weren't Michael and Ben, nor were they Mel and Linds. They were Justin and Brian Kinney, FFS!

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Originally Posted by aśka (View Post)

I would want them together, but why marriage and all this crap? I want to kill myself thinking about that.
But disagree they gave them honestly ending, it was the worst ending they could give them .

But as I said and will repeat - they were more than usual standars and they always will be. I hate that so many people wanted to see them as they see themselfs probably. People can be happy with their own rules, world, they don't need to fit to some sh.it.

I hate they didn't leave them alone the way they are. They wanted to show, I don't know what. It's not that there are only two ways - together as marriage couple or separate. It's stupid thinking, people are more than that and for sure they both were much more than that.

And I can't see they wanted it or believed it, for me it was so forced. That's why I can't accept it or survived it - doesn't feel right. It wasn't them. Writers needed to use so stupid and naive tricks to separate them... Like it was some stupid little drama couple.

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Originally Posted by SojournHeart11 (View Post)

Marriage isn't for everyone, so I most definitely agree it would not have been in them to have gotten married. Though I wouldn't have mind a commitment ceremony... just any opportunity I can get to see them in matching/coordinated suits.

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Originally Posted by fmaldy24 (View Post)

SO I am the opposite to everyone else

I can't see why it would be a problem for them to be married to each other. Brian had changed so much over the 5 seasons and knew he wanted Justin forever so why not marry? Some people have open marriages (which I don't understand but they do so ...). I guess I'm just a fan of marriage though overall so I don't see an issue with it. Again I think Brian had changed in a lot of ways and wanting to formalise something with Justin doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to me. I know I am in the minority here but that's cool

.

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Originally Posted by I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! (View Post)

Well they DID give us that scene with them in their suits together...

Marriage is fine for a lot of people, but Brian Kinney is different. He was made to represent a different mindset, a different lifestyle. Forcing him to conform to the majority of society's ideals for happiness and love would've been such an insult, IMO. Brian deserved to stay true to his character in the end, and i'm so happy they pulled that out in the very end...he almost lost it. Brian certainly evolved and matured but he never lost that "lion" quality to him, and Justin knew that, that's why he wouldn't let him become a house cat.

It's entirely possible for them to remain committed without a formal, legally binding contract. I think it speaks more to their love and devotion to each other to just CHOOSE to go on loving each other. Justin sums it up nicely with "We don't need rings or vows to prove that we love each other. We already know that."

I just get annoyed with the idea that everyone's vision of happiness/happy ending has to be the same. I see Brian as being happy and empowered in the end of the series, because he's true to himself. Yet I've seen so many comments that say, "Everything worked out for everyone BUT Brian"...and I just think..."Did I watch the same show?

"

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Originally Posted by fmaldy24 (View Post)

But Brian had changed so much throughout time and grown up and he didn't have to stay as the promiscuous man he was just sleeping around. You see throughout the whole show how he has changed and evolved. Maybe yeah no marriage but a committed relationship and still being together. They didn't need to live in different places and do different things to keep growing and keep being in love.

I also don't think he seemed happy at the end. He was so sad when Justin left and looked sad dancing by himself. He took 5 years to admit he loved him and he leaves! He can't see him anytime he likes or talk to him or have sex with him - he's away from him and who knows when he'll see him again. He doesn't seem happy to be by himself just in my opinion

.

I agree in a lot of points here.

one - I also have two hearts beating in my chest about the reunion.. scared they f

it up, but also sad we don't see the whole cast back together in that brilliant show

Fina - I agree completly here.. it doesn't have to be marriage (why do people always have to be married to be in a commioted relationship, and who defines this relationship has to be monogamous, if both parties agree to something else

) so I could imagine Brian and Justin together in a not so common way, like Mel/Linds or Michale/Ben, cause no.. the y aren't people like those couples.. they are different

and special

I could absolutly imagine them to partly live on both places, NY and Pitttsburgh. Brian having a branch of Kinnetik in NY and Justin having a second studio at home.. having both what they love.. Justin has his dream home in Britin and Brian a fancy, really noble loft in NY.. but both happy wherever they are when they are together.. they don't need kids, or pets or happily ever afters.. they just enjoy each others presents and success, cause that is what they are, two successfull businessmen.. one with his art and the other with his ad-campain..maybe even benefit from each other with artworks from Justin in the ad world, and Brian advertising Justins shows..

a girl can dream

and I'm sure there will be enough drama to happen between those two without being not involved with each other

fmaldy24 · 08-15-2019, 01:31 AM

I agree with how you see them Daggi but I didn't see them parting like it was all over. I know what Cowlip have said since then about it wasn't meant to be forever etc but I wonder if they said that just because there was so much backlash after the ending?

**Giotto** · 08-15-2019, 09:06 AM

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Originally Posted by fmaldy24 (View Post)

I agree with how you see them Daggi but I didn't see them parting like it was all over. I know what Cowlip have said since then about it wasn't meant to be forever etc but I wonder if they said that just because there was so much backlash after the ending?

that is a god question, but sadly we 'll never know for sure

I'm Brian Kinney, FFS! · 08-15-2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmaldy24 (View Post)

I agree with how you see them Daggi but I didn't see them parting like it was all over. I know what Cowlip have said since then about it wasn't meant to be forever etc but I wonder if they said that just because there was so much backlash after the ending?

I don't think so. I get the impression that was their honest intention with the ending. It makes sense in context while watching it, so I believe them.

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one - I also have two hearts beating in my chest about the reunion.. scared they f it up, but also sad we don't see the whole cast back together in that brilliant show

I totally agree.

EDIT...ahh, well now I bring this over from the other thread.

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But Brian had changed so much throughout time and grown up and he didn't have to stay as the promiscuous man he was just sleeping around. You see throughout the whole show how he has changed and evolved. Maybe yeah no marriage but a committed relationship and still being together. They didn't need to live in different places and do different things to keep growing and keep being in love. I also don't think he seemed happy at the end. He was so sad when Justin left and looked sad dancing by himself. He took 5 years to admit he loved him and he leaves! He can't see him anytime he likes or talk to him or have sex with him - he's away from him and who knows when he'll see him again. He doesn't seem happy to be by himself just in my opinion .

Brian had changed a lot, certainly.

He learned to open up and express his feelings, but I still believe Justin totally called him out on not really wanting marriage...he was more freaked out by the bombing and wanted to secure Justin's place in his life, and he took it to the way extreme. And I agree, they could work it out to just stay committed to each other without marriage...but ultimately I think that's what they do...even though they have to part ways for a while.

And true, people CAN grow together...but Justin had all this potential in the art world. He didn't HAVE to go to NY, but he chose to. Clearly he was at that point in his life where he needed to get out and explore his options. He might've hated himself later on in life if he never took that chance, and ended up resenting Brian for it, too. It happens. But it totally wouldn't have been fair to expect Brian to drop Kinnetik, which was doing super well, to follow him to NY.

I think really we need to remember how YOUNG Justin still is in the end of the series. He's gotta get out there and explore a bit. I believe entirely that he finds his way back to Brian.

And who knows - he could've totally failed out of NY.

I see Brian as happy in that final dancing scene. I love the callback to the beginning of the series. IDK, it's a bittersweet, but ultimately happy and empowered ending for him, IMO. He's forever changed and grown and all that, and now he's got his own company, and he OWNS Babylon.

We could boil it down to both of these guys started experiencing lots of career success at the same time, and they owed it to themselves and each other to explore that. And again I don't believe Justin really had to go to NY for that...but apparently it was his best shot at it, so why not take a chance? Brian's not gonna stop loving him.

**SojournHeart11** · 08-20-2019, 08:27 PM

I'm behind in this discussion. Gotta read it before I give my two cents.


Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Queer As Folk > Brian and Justin #197...still a better love story than Twilight