brianitesince2001

Hi, again. Really trying NOT to begin threads. But, I have several games in mind if anyone is interested in playing them. I'm posting in as many game threads as I can find so we can keep them all running separately. But, many of those threads are closed. Sooooo, sorry but here's a new thread.

Can we count all the times that Brian follows Justin?

By FOLLOWS I mean how many instances does Brian follow Justin physically?

And also, how many instances does Brian follow Justin with his longing stare/gaze as Justin leaves him?

Finally, how many instances do we see Brian following Justin with his body language i.e. in background at Babylon and Brian's next to Justin leaning into him b/c Brian always feels that pull to be with Justin?


Fascinatingly, early season 1 is when Justin was dubbed "the stalker" and yet there are so many examples of Brian actually doing the following.

102-Brian (OK, so Father George Goodf*** prodded him to do this but he did do it nonetheless.) Brian follows Justin out of the loft and down to the street, and then to the car, to talk to him.
Brian also follows Justin with his stare as Justin drives away. (I could write yet ANOTHER essay on what that stare meant but I'll save that for another time. LOL)

103 - Brian follows those tricks on the dance floor right over to Justin and proceeds to claim him. Brian's fate was sealed in that moment.

104 - Mikey called Brian to come over but yet, Brian still followed Justin to Deb's house. Please note: Justin KNEW it was Brian when the bedroom door opened and he didn't even have to look.

105-Justin met M/L on the street and wound up over at their house. Brian didn't know that but yet, Justin was there first. Brian came later. Neither was aware consciously but Brian actually "followed" Justin there.

106-Brian shows up at Justin's art show. Then follows him to grab him from behind and ask who that guy is that Justin drew. Brian also purchased the sketch. However, that will always be more of a moment of Brian-narcissism than devotion to Justin in my mind so I'm not really going to count that as Brian following Justin's budding art career.

108-Brian follows Justin down the steps exiting Babylon. (BRIAN FOLLOWING JUSTIN UP AND DOWN STEPS SHOULD BE A WHOLE SEPARATE GAME IN AND OF ITSELF. IT HAPPENS A LOT. LOL)

110-Brian follows Justin to NYC.

116-Brian doesn’t want to deal with Chris Hobbs. But when Justin goes down those steps to confront Hobbs Brian follows him down in a flash to protect Justin.

118-Brian follows Justin right up those steps in Babylon as they’re discussing Dartmouth. Brian’s also guiding and protecting Justin from behind to avoid the immature guys making out on the dance floor. Very, very symbolic gesturing there.
Brian hears Justin frustrated b/c the bartender won't serve him. Brian follows him and begins his beautiful Forever Young speech followed by the lovely Forever Young dance.

120-King of Babylon. Brian follows Justin right down those steps to see Justin topping Brian’s trick. Brian’s wearing a devastated look and knows how badly he screwed up taking Justin for granted.

122-Brian follows Justin to the prom. Brian follows Justin goofing around in the garage towards the car. Brian follows Justin with his gaze in the side view mirror as Justin's leaving. Then *gulp* Brian follows sprinting and screaming Justin's name. Finally, Brian follows him down onto the cold cement. Sigh.
Then Brian follows him off the ambulance and follows his stretcher into the hospital where he sits and waits for Justin.

201-Brian is pulled towards Justin and follows Justin to the hospital each and every night. Then, once Justin’s out Brian follows him home to make sure they’re together and so Justin will know that Brian will follow him always to make sure he’s safe.

202-Sitting with Justin on M/L’s steps Brian is facing towards the crowd and away from Justin. It’s amazing. If Justin were sitting sort of in front of Brian Brian would always be able to keep Justin in his line of sight. Rather, Justin’s sort of behind him as they watch the party. And, YET, Brian can actually feel Justin’s in distress. He spins around, is on his feet in a flash, embracing Justin. Brian followed Justin in that scene with his tingling Justin sense.
Then, of course, Brian also followed Justin’s lead later on in the loft as Justin guided him in how Justin wanted Brian inside of him.
Brian even followed Justin’s lead when Justin removed the blood-stained scarf and Brian surrendered to Justin in granting Justin the power to do it.

203-The following just never ends in this epi. Brian leaves Woody’s to go home to Justin. Brian follows Justin into the bookstore. Brian follows Justin back out of the bookstore on Justin’s command. Brian wants to stay with Justin the rest of the afternoon but Justin is generous enough to share Brian with Mikey and the others. Justin actually utters the words: I’m sick of you always following me around. Justin takes off down the street and Brian just follows after him with a stare. The scene is cut off before Brian ever looks away.

I said my eyes were closing two hours ago but now they’re really shutting down. Thanks again for letting me work out my grief here. I know I’ve been quite long winded but if I don’t air my feelings I’m never going to get out of this obsessive spiral.

Hope you all join the game! I’ll be back to add more when I can!!

SojournHeart11

Hello and welcome! Thank you for the suggestions, and I definitely think it's something we should consider. Those are some interesting game choices for sure, and I love your take on each of those moments.

♥ Gale's Fragile Beauty ♥

Great list! I think a wonderful place for this to be is the Brian/Justin couple thread. So...I'm going to move it there.

Oh man...I can't wait for all of the wonderful discussions with you brianitesince2001.

brianitesince2001

Hi, again, Deborah.

Thanks for moving it to a more appropriate place.

I haven't even begun to tackle that list. Feel free to jump in. The water's B/J licious!!

Fun game. It makes me feel better to hone in on the love rather than the Cowlip hate.

fmaldy24

You have some fantastic scenes in there already Beth Some very special B/J moments

brianitesince2001

I haven't even scratched the surface.

How about 204 when Brian chases him out of Woody's and down the street to ask the stud if he wants to dance and promises Justin he won't forget this one.

How about in 401 when Justin needs Brian to walk into Woody's for his surprise fundraiser. The scene is amazing. Brian's refusing to budge. Justin's having none of it. Justin literally snaps at Brian as Justin's walking up the steps and Brian simply follows.

307 - the infamous Justin/Brian eye-******* in the back room. Everybody comments on the fact that Justin's eyes are GLUED to Brian's. But, how did that scene set up???

Justin was already there (albeit I'm sure he was wishing Brian would come along. but he was there first nonetheless.) and along comes Brian. He spots Justin and plants him self right there against the wall in full view of the show. He can't look away. He TRIES. About three times he turns his head forward but he keeps looking back. Justin never turns away. But, Justin's not the one whose heart is tattered. Brian's is. And, still, he can't refuse Justin in any way, shape or form.

Anybody else gonna play this with me??? LOL
It's OK if nobody else does. I hope you all don't mind, then, if I just doodle my thoughts as they come to me.

fmaldy24

I'm enjoying it and reading all the happy stories and happy memories they bring I'm not always good at thinking of the scenes and I certainly don't know what episode they are in but I am enjoying reading yours

brianitesince2001

Ugh, Fmaldy. Guh. I don't know why this one gets me so badly but it does. All from one little stare in Babylon.

310 - the boys are back together. they're dancing to this amazing fast beat in babylon. brian's wearing a look of bliss with justin in his arms. a trick comes and intrudes upon them. brian says WHOOPS and accepts the advance. but a second later reaches out to justin and literally swoops him into brian to show justin he's still priority number one.

brian tries to offer justin poppers. justin refuses and says he has a project. brian (in defense mode says I do, too). justin leaves. brian turns around and follows him with his gaze. for that second you see the fear, insecurity, doubt, unsuredness all over brian's face. then, the moment's gone, brian snaps out of it, turns back to the trick and says he wants to play good c***, bad c***.

Next morning they're on the street and the agitprop art has been posted on the wall. nobody can figure out who the secret avenger is. justin walks up looking exhausted. debbie comments. justin says he was up all night working on a project.

and here's my poor brian's insecurity and fear come to the fore: he says oh so casually as he's sipping his coffee but really dying on the inside b/c he doesn't want to be betrayed again, "well, when you're done will you pass him onto me?"

when justin says not that type of project the moment passes so quickly it's almost immeasurable. but the relief is there.

then, in the next two seconds brian figures out justin's the one hanging the posters and using vanguard's resources to do it. b/c that's my brilliant and savy brian.

fmaldy24

I think I need to watch the show again and look more carefully at Brian's reactions to Justin and his face - sometimes I see some of the things you are talking about but some I have missed - oh well a good excuse to watch again Yah!

I do love how Brian pulls Justin in though and keeps him close even after the trick tries to dance with him and to show that Justin does mean more to him than anyone else We see them back together and happy and Brian wanting to please Justin and so happy to have him back

brianitesince2001

Fmaldy, I said the exact same thing back in 2001. Here's the advice I was given and it absolutely changed my world. And, since 2001 I've followed this advice to the letter and never watched QAF any other way.

When Gale Harold is on the screen no matter who else is there keep your eyes peeled on Gale Harold at all times. Don't even blink. First begin with his face. Then rewind, and expand to his stance, then rewind and watch his arms, etc., etc.

If you're looking for other people's reactions in the scene rewind and watch again. But for the first two-three times there is absolutely nobody else on camera except for Gale. And, that's the only way to pick up the incredible detail of this man's performance.

But, Fmaldy, truly, Gale Harold is probably the most gifted actor I've ever experienced in terms of his non-verbal projection/portrayal/nuance.

We used to say Gale is the man of 1000 faces. (And much more attractive than Lon Chaney, the original man of 1000 faces. LOL) He's got an arsenal of expressions that defy reason. He changes the look of his face from season to season. Every once in a while there will be an expression i.e. 312 Brian's in Horvath's office re: Kenneth Reikert. He's describing Reikert's appearance and it's very generic and fits all the cops there. Brian says INCLUDING YOU meaning Horvath could fit the description. If you look at Brian's expression it's exactly the one Brian uses on Justin in the kitchen in 505 saying Justin could have given "it" to Brian (don't want to spoil anything here). In 312 the look is less pronounced but it's the same exact one. And Gale uses it ONLY twice...in five years and 83 episodes. That expression literally changes the look of his face. As do most of his other expressions. It's unfathomable.

One of the reasons I'm so addicted to this character is that Brian is soooooo nuanced I find it impossible to believe that Gale was given every move of this acting via a director.

I think that's nearly impossible.

So, what's the alternative? Gale Harold is a method actor. Gale actually BECOMES Brian. Actually becomes Brian. Therefore, Gale as Brian is the one that instinctively follows Justin through gazes, stares, body language (if you look at them in the background of a scene Brian is leaning in towards Justin almost always). Gale is gone. The director is gone. Gale has stepped through the looking glass and has become Brian Kinney hopelessly in love with Justin Taylor.

Anyway, I think that was 85% of the draw of the entire Brian fandom when it was being aired. How coiuld this possibly be fiction when it is so thoroughly followed through by Gale as Brian?? It still stumps me. How does he so completely instinctively behave so naturally and thoroughly as Brian Kinney??????????

Also, every single time I watch I pick up a brand new thing with Gale/Brian I hadn't seen before. The layers seem infinite. It's stunning. And, I've watched certain scenes like the end of 304 probably 35 times in a row. It's beyond addicting. And delicious. LOL

fmaldy24

That is a very good idea Beth You're right Gale is amazing in this show and I believe he does become Brian Kinney. Cowlip have said when he rang them to take the roll they answered the phone and he said it's Brian Kinney speaking. He just took that - he became that. Other people have said that he is very intense when he is acting and I think that is because he takes on these roles with so much feeling and becomes that person so much that he does become intense.

Next time I watch I will have to watch him very closely and see his reactions to everything more

SojournHeart11

I think you're right, Gale just has this spectacular screen presence, and when he's in a scene, you can't help but to stare at him for as long as he's in it. That's not to downplay the other actors' talents, but he is very hard to not notice.

brianitesince2001

Oh, Denise, no doubt. He's a scene-stealer, alright.

My issue so long ago was that I still was looking at the full scene instead of JUST him. That's how I was missing sooooooo much. People on the boards were recounting a scene and I didn't even feel I had watched the same one. I was thinking where was I when Brian was doing that?

So, that's when I was told to actively and consciously ignore everybody but him. And, yes, he naturally steals the viewer's attention. But, beyond that my eye has been literally trained to see nobody else but him. And, still, I miss things.

You want to know something I missed for 12 years????? I've been looping this show continually since August. I've been morbidly drawn to season 5 so I've watched it so many times I can't tell you. The scene in the parking lot at the end of 510??? (Don't want to spoil)

In reading Jane's live journal from 12 years ago she mentions there's a third whisper. I JUST JUST JUST found that out two days ago.

I went running to the TV. Hit on that scene. Turned my volume up as loud as I dared without angering my neighbors. And, I almost threw up. I actually heard this third whisper for the very first time. Ever.

The butterflies in my stomach when I heard that were so intense I started to shake and almost threw up.

I think I reacted so intensely because it was like some hidden jewel that had been there before me for so many years and I never knew it was there.

I had told you guys that I never watched season 5 when it aired. But, I had local friends and believe me when I tell you they made watch that particular scene repeatedly as did they. So, I was well-versed in that exchange and it was soooooooooooooo nuanced it was like subtext.

Now, if you all know about that already then as Gilda Radner used to say, "Never mind."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYoNL4g5Vg

But, if this is new to you. Go watch and make sure your volume is up.

I had no idea he answered that way. LOL!!

I've always been so afraid to delve into behind the scenes stuff with the actors, producers, out-takes, interviews, etc.

I've peeked a few times and it burnt me so badly. It just messes with my sense of the fantasy of the story. I even saw a still shot the other day of a dude with a cue card while Brian was at his computer during 403 when Justin came out in the pink posse outfit.

FREAKED ME OUT!! I was like - what is that dude doing in Brian's loft???

I'm really suuuuuuuch a sick puppy when it comes to this stuff.

LOL - that's how devastated I am. I actually began hunting for some explanation from Cowlip last week. I also remember reading about the aftermath and the H*LL Cowlip had to encounter post 513. (which they so deserved.) But, I crossed that line and it really messes with my mind.

Hi, Fmaldy,

Another thing I absolutely looooove about Gale's development of Brian...

Please notice how much more effeminate Brian is in Season 5. When Brian's armor began to crack he also began to move with less restriction. He always held himself in check; always had to be in control. I think Gale's interpretation of this new freedom as the burdens are shed from Brian's soul and the weight is lifted is just beautiful. It feels uncannily natural as if we weren't watching an actor portray a character but rather an actual person.

Actually, I ducked back in once more to clarify.
Actually, his increased expressiveness began in 313. Some argue that the B/J saga should have ended at 314. The end of season 3 seems to be the height of Brian's comfort around Justin. He adores Justin in Season 4 but is completely impotent in trying to get Justin away from the posse. Then, he doesn't trust Justin with news of his cancer and lo and behold, he becomes impotent physically.

Due to his lack of control and trust he's not showing any femininity in season 4, really.

But, anyway - in the scene in 313 where he and Justin are walking down the street and Brian's trying to convince Justin to apologize his speaking and moving affectations are things we never experienced before with Brian.

Brian repeats this in 314 in the loft as he's confessing to Justin that Brian's the Concerned Citizens for the Truth. If you watch that scene over and over he's unrecognizable as Brian Kinney. He's absolutely an open, expressive, sincere, flappable, vulnerable, scared person. Everything that Brian Kinney is not.

Brian carries a lot of these season 4 issues into season 5 and they wreak havoc on Brian and on Brian and Justin. HOWEVER, Brian was just about broken while Justin was in Hollywood. When Justin returned in 502 see the look on Brian's face when he tells Justin he didn't think Justin was ever coming back.

Moving forward Brian was cracked open for good (he was behaving immaturely and hurtfully but that doesn't mean his heart wasn't cracked open. there was just a delay in his ego/id catching up) so Gale brought back that increased expressiveness that you can see begin in 504 in that stupid orgy scene I wish they never got involved in. But, before even that happened - watch in 501 as Brian and Mikey come off the dance floor and they're talking about Brian surprising Justin by going to CA that weekend. Brian's lit up like a Christmas tree from excitement and anticipation. Look at how expressive he when he's telling Michael not to spiil the beans. Again, it brings tears to my eyes. He shuts down again when he decides not to go to CA. But when Justin returns that heart's open for good. GUH!!!

But, regardless, Gale's an interpretive genius. Brian's exquisite in season 5 and Gale's steering that ship.

Can we count all the times that Brian follows Justin?

By FOLLOWS I mean how many instances does Brian follow Justin physically?

And also, how many instances does Brian follow Justin with his longing stare/gaze as Justin leaves him?

Finally, how many instances do we see Brian following Justin with his body language i.e. in background at Babylon and Brian's next to Justin leaning into him b/c Brian always feels that pull to be with Justin?

As we get further into the series the examples per ep become more numerous and meaningful. So, the descriptions are going to longer than one liners.(Until, of course the Ian turbulence. We'll get through those eps very quickly, unfortunately.)

I already mentioned 204 earlier so...

205-at Woody's everybody's talking about their dreams. Brian is leaning back into Justin, leaning sideways towards Justin, and actually sitting almost bent over in half huddled into Justin's midriff. (That last bit is very much in the background and you have to be looking for it.)
THIS is very interesting and I would LOVE to have a conversation to interpret this move. I present to you in 205 the ANTI-FOLLOW. Brian actually RECOILS from Justin's words and body language in this ep while Brian's kneeling by the new artist's computer and Justin's freaking out in the bedroom. BRILLIANT ACTING BY GALE. I've re-watched that recoil probably in the hundreds by now.
It's significant in my list of "follows" because Justin affects him sooo deeply that the visceral reaction is a recoil. Astounding. Amazing. It's not an intellectual reaction; it's not even really an emotional reaction. It's of the viscera. It's PRIMAL. BASE. ANIMAL. Yet it's not at all violent. It's calm. Understated. It's magic. That's the level of Gale's acting. WHEW.

206-Dinner at Deb's where they're accused of being like newlyweds. Brian's completely leaned in his chair to the right so that Justin's left side is kind of on top of Brian. Then, of course, Brian follows Justin's order/request to grab the plate. His response is a falsetto Yes, Dear. (It's way out of focus and in the fore-front of the screen but try to catch Justin playing with Brian's ear as the camera is focused on a conversation that's happening across the table.)
Brian follows Justin to the computer and sidles up to the back of him. Justin's upset b/c he doesn't know why he's living in Brian's loft. UNFORTUNATELY, we hear Brian utter some of the most hetero words we've ever heard him speak. I, for one, did not like this dialogue leaving Brian's mouth: Are you still upset about the zuchini man? He meant nothing. I don't even remember him. Ugh. Yuck. He sounds like a husband who was caught cheating.
OTOH, this is the magical ep where Brian confirms his love for Justin to Debbie and then FOLLOWS Justin all the way to Babylon so they can establish the "rules." LOVE how Brian tells the dude kissing Justin to ******* Off. I actually love how they each tell each other's tricks to ******* Off throughout the series. It's just funny. BUT, in this instance as Brian spots Justin in the crowd the room is very grainy and black and white. Yikes. Brian is jealous and feeling extremely territorial. The trick's lucky he only received an enthusiastic ******* Off and not a busted lip. LOL

**Brian is now following Justin's lead as the rules are laid out. And, as we all know Brian now "follows" these rules religiously (except for the night in jail in 214) I do believe until the very end of the series. I may be mistaken but I don't think Brian EVER did not follow Justin's rules after that moment.** PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG.

207-what a fun episode! (Aside from the I want you safe. I want you around for a long time. There was no following there. Brian took the LEAD in that one out of terror for Justin's naivete. But I had to give it honorable mention b/c it's just one of the most wonderful scenes in B/J history. And GUH.) OK - back to the fun!
In Babylon they're leaning against the bar and Brian's just bodily gravitating towards Justin through the several scenes. Even while Brian's stirring the pot btwn Ted and Emmett Justin's in the back laughing and Brian's constantly glancing back for Justin's participation and approval as he proceeds to start a war btwn his two friends over a rolex and a trick.

Again, no following but so perfectly in sync that it deserves honorable mention. Now, they're at M/L in the kitchen with Leda during the awful brunch. Justin says flowers are getting to his allergies. Brian grabs what's in Justin's hand, slams it down, says great excuse to leave and if you watch they become ONE in that instant. Their arms perfectly are in sync and at the exact same time they link up and truly meld until Leda blocks the doorway. LOL
(I despise outtakes. It just destroys my fantasy that this is all real. Yup. I'm sick and I have a problem. I accidentally stumbled onto this outtake the other day while I thought I was looking at photos. it was one of those quick videos. My heart's broken. But, I'm going to try to block that from my mind and just go with the finished scene that made it to airing.)
Anyway, once the E is put in the punch and Brian looks scrumpdiliotious as he jumps on the bed and talks stupid Lyndsay off the ledge they head downstairs for the B-52 orgy. The scene's got a lot happening. But, watch if you catch it: Brian runs into the living room B-lines right past Leda (who BTW wants some attention from these two boys so she's sort of insinuating herself throughout the afternoon) and actually has to go around Leda and like a heat seeking missile Brian follows/finds Justin. He immediately grabs Justin and kind of burrows himself in.

I ask you...how could these two possibly not be together forever????

Giotto

Beth, I did the same here like in the season 5 thread, I merged your posts

I have to leave soon, so I have to answer a little bit later when I had time to read all of yours just wanted to let you know that I don't ignore you, I just want to do it the propper way

Btw.. it is totally ok if you din't want to post in all theads we apreciate each post of you no matter where

brianitesince2001

Hi, Giotto,

Nice to meet you.

Um.

The only thing is I was posting separately for a reason.

I was discussing the nuance Gale brings as Brian.

But, also I was playing a game that I wondered if anybody wanted to join me in which was to find and describe all of the scenes where Brian is following Justin.

Nobody seemed interested so I thought would post them as they came to me.

Now that the posts are merged it's extremely long, convoluted and covering many themes.

I had originally wanted a separate thread for the game but I understood too many threads are really confusing.

But, am I doing something wrong by too many posts in a thread?

Please don't take this as me having an attitude. I'm genuinely confused and hope I'm not offending people here. But, at the same time I feel like my thoughts are being clumped together and the point of my posts are being changed for me.

Please let me know.

Have a nice day,
Beth