WildRose

I can't agree more, Steffi
I can understand that Debbie had to think about Micheal, because he was her son, but this was about Brian struggling to hide his feelings towards Justin, not Micheal.

Still I adore that line and that little sigh from Brian afterwards

soulmatejunkee

That Michael line was unnecessary ...

WildRose

But... I'm willing to 'forgive' Debbie, esp since her words obviously touched Brian (just as much as Justin touched his heart ) which led to another all time classic line I'll be coming home to you

Manu9

I think Deb included Michael because Michael and Justin's attitude towards Brian weren't all that different. They were both in love with Brian, Michael not anymore more, maybe, but at one time he was. And Brian cared about both. But he could never tell Michael "ILY" because Michael was always just a friend to him, while instead he could tell "ILY" to Justin, because he was in love with him.

soulmatejunkee

Yeah I get that, but why was it necessary to mention Michael here?
What for?
The B/J relationship was completely different right from the start.

Manu9

I don't know, I've never really thought about it because it never annoyed me, to be honest. I think Debbie at times hoped for Michael and Brian to get together and Brian maybe did too hope or think that one day he would get with Michael. Remember the jokes about being old in Palm Springs, which I think weren't only jokes after all?
I think Debbie meant that he had a chance with Michael but never took it because there weren't the necessary feelings and that he shouldn't miss another chance, this one real, with Justin.
I guess Debbie felt Michael and Justin were in a similar position, because both always wanted Brian to acknowledge that they meant something to him. But Debbie knew Brian could never say so to Michael while he could instead do it with Justin.

Why does it bother you instead?

necklace

I think that Debbie didn't really mean to compare those two relationships nor imply that Brian ever felt the same way about Michael as he did about Justin. I think her point was that before Justin came into his life Michael was the most important person to Brian, someone he loved but was never able to express. In fact, I actually liked that Michael was mentioned in that conversation because of how different those two relationships were. Debbie tried to make Brian see that while he would get away with not saying those words to Michael, he absoultely needed to say them to Justin, because of relationship they shared AND because of how he felt about Justin. Michael has always been a brother to Brian and lack of confession wasn't going to change anything between them, however admiting to Justin that their relationship means something to him could do them both a lot of good. By insisting to tell Justin the truth and mentioning Michael Debbie let Brian know that she was aware how difficult it was for him to express emotion and how important it was to do so.

galesgirl645

I think Debbie wanted Brian to realize that he could be happy with Justin something he could not do with Michael because Brian didn't love him romantically.

soulmatejunkee

Brian never had a problem to tell Michael how he felt about him. "I love you", "You're the exception of course", etc. etc. If there's one person who practically always gets a declaration of love from Brian, it's Michael. Sure, it's not the kind of declaration Michael wants to hear, but it's not that he doesn't get anything from Brian.

I don't know, to me it's unecessary and unfitting. This was all about Brian and Justin and not about Justin vs. Michael or Brian and Michael. Michael wasn't a matter in this moment, he wasn't a part of the problem. And then it also sounds weird, because "What you COULD never say to Michael" - what's that supposed to be? I just think the COULD is wrong, since I don't think that Brian ever had romantic feelings for Michael.

I agree that he probably thought that when they were old they would end up together so none of them is alone, and I think that was the masterplan, before practically everything changed because of Justin (and David, and Ben), and yes, maybe Brian also somehow hoped he would fall in love with Michael, since he did love him already, but there's not COULD IMO. Brian simply never felt that way for Michael.

@necklace
I agree with what you said about getting away with Michael, but not with Justin. But then again - why putting Michael into this conversation, I just don't get it.

Manu9

I think maybe we are interpreting the "could" in different ways. I don't think Debbie meant Brian could never say I love you to Michael because he has trouble in talking about his feelings and making them known to other people. I've always thought she meant that Brian could never say I love you to Michael because he doesn't love him. It's very different in my opinion. What I think she was saying is that while he never could say those words to Michael because he didn't feel that emotion towards him (romantic love, not friendship), he could instead tell those words to Justin because this time he was in love, he felt that feeling. The could isn't about Brian's capability to tell the words, but about Brian's feeling or not feeling the love Debbie is talking about. Brian could never say I love you to Michael simply because he didn't love him. He could and should instead tell Justin, because the feeling was there. I don't see it as a comparison between Michael and Justin or B/M and B/J. I think it's not even a speech that Debbie gives about Justin. It's all about Brian, in my opinion: she's telling him to take the chance, to go after the happiness he can have, because this time he is in love with the person that's loving him and he can do something about it, while he couldn't with Michael, not because he was scared or unable of telling him I love you, but simply because he didn't love him that way and consequently he COULDN'T tell him I love you.

soulmatejunkee

Yeah but why is it necessary to bring Michael in to it?
"You're in love" would be in enough.

Manu9

I don't know, maybe because being Michael's mom, she could see the situation over the years. Maybe it was also about protecting Justin, about pushing Brian to give Justin the happiness he deserved, instead of the pain Michael felt for long, because this one time, Brian could finally give back because he was in love too.

soulmatejunkee

Still don't see a reason for Michael being mentioned here...

WildRose

I definitely agree.

I can understand Debbie's need to prove to Brian that his inability to express his feelings was hurting him,because ha wasn't able to be completely honest with a close friend like Micheal, but this was a whole different relationship then Brian's relationship with Justin, as Debbie herself described in her own uniquel way (the little persistent kid.... )

galesgirl645

I guess Debbie just felt the need to bring Michael into the conversation