Naive Girl

I completely agree. I really enjoyed the group dynamtic up until early season three. As time went on, I kinda got annoyed with Fred.

shutterbug579

I've always wondered what the thought process was behind adding another character. I've never been fond of Fred because she wasn't really needed. It's like they were trying to fill in a hole that wasn't there.

Jaime Bee

I don't like the show as much mid Season 3 on. I wish Connor has stayed a baby. I think maybe they felt they needed another female in the group.

Fiana

I also wish that Connor had stayed a baby. Maybe the whole season 4 desaster would have never happened and Cordy would be still alive.

Lemariz

Yes, Cordy, Angel, Wes and Gunn had a beautiful family bond. The dynamic changed with Fred. But I still liked her until season five, then she became annoying to me.

Naive Girl

Like you all, I wish conner had stayed a baby. It would have been a completely different ending.

shutterbug579

I really like VK as an actor but the writing for him was so inconsistent that I prefer baby Connor too.

You could really see a difference in the show once David Greenwalt left. The dynamic shifted dramatically from episode to episode depending on who was writing it and not in a good way.

Jaime Bee

Why did he leave?

Fiana

I don´t know why David Greenwalt left but I heard that he liked Cordelia.

Maybe Joss has never been a fan of Cordy and after Greenwalt was gone he had the freedom to destroy and kill her.

Jaime Bee

Maybe So!

shutterbug579

David Greenwalt left Angel because his contract with FOX expired and they couldn't come to terms for a new contract. Since FOX owns Angel, it meant he could no longer work on the show.

Greenwalt was a big Cordy fan. He was the one that suggested she move from Buffy to Angel. If you have the Buffy season 2 DVDs check out the commentary for "Reptile Boy," he's very complimentary to Cordy and CC.

Jaime Bee

Oh that just sucks. I bet Angel would have been So different in the later years if he was still there. There was a certain vibe in the earlier seasons. I liked it better when the Fang Gang helped the helpless. It's weird going back and watching the show from the start now cause I started watching Season 3 on and before would have said Season 3 was my fave season. Now I'm not So sure even though I love Cangel.

shutterbug579

I really loved the show up until the final scene of "Waiting in the Wings." I think when Groo showed up they gave up on trying to keep the dynamic of the Fang Gang together. From that point on someone is always missing from the group. Cordy goes off with Groo, then Wesley gets kicked out of the group when Connor gets taken. Season 4 starts with Wes on his own, Angel and Cordy are both missing, Lorne is in Las Vegas, and Cordy's apartment is vacated so we never hear about Phantom Dennis again. Even "You're Welcome" isn't a true reunion because Connor's not there and there's no mention of Dennis.

It's sad how quickly it all fell apart and I don't think it's a coincidence that it coincides with Greenwalt's lesser involvement in the show. He was the detail man and none of the showrunners after him seemed to pay attention to anything more than the current episode. You're right, Jaime Bee, they went from helping the helpless to barely being able to help themselves and that's the main reason why I dislike the last two season so much.

Naive Girl

I remember being so angry when Groo showed up. To me, it seemed so OOC when Cordelia just left with him. It didn't mesh with her character development at all.

shutterbug579

I guess the writers figured he was the easiest way to make her disappear for a few episodes. Personally, I wish they'd tied her exit into a storyline with her parents. There's a call from her mother mentioned in the first season so we know she had enough contact with them after high school that they knew where to find her but we never got any details on the situation. I think Cordy's the only main character whose family was never fleshed out.