[PhoenixRising]

I understand that, Tia, and I accept that you enjoyed the films. But I'm merely stating that the films would be better if they stuck to the comics. I'm also stating that the films are having negative effects on the comics themselves due to the comics now feeling they must align with the public perception that has been influenced by the MCU.

[eternalfate]

^ From what I read about your post when it comes to Hank and Janet, I agree with you that's it's some straight up bull and they deserve so much more respect and an actual live action story, you can't go giving another character their whole arc and not have them have a bigger role but I believe with comics adapted series/movies you ain't going to please anyone.

I've accepted so long ago (probably because I watched Smallville live since 2005) that everything won't go exactly as the comics or else it'd be no point of watching.


But when it comes to Hank and Janet, I am there with you but I believe the MCU movies did good... I haven't watched all of the MCU movies to judge but the ones I watched ain't that bad.


Can't speak for MCU but when it comes to DC comics, they were already trashing themselves way before some public perception. DC Comics actually recently regained some common sense if we are talking strickly comics.
So I agree with your Hank/Janet point most...

[PhoenixRising]

I agree with you, Tia. But if you saw what is happening to these characters in the comics as a result of the MCU... well, it's like tossing these characters on the scrap pile of history to be forgotten just because of a lousy movie. Why should comic book fans have to suffer their comics getting reworked just because of the MCU? That's what makes this even worse because it smacks of erasure.

[eternalfate]

^ Is there any chance those that Marvel will remake these movies again? I know Marvel really only does it with Spiderman.... it's been so many of the movies. lol

So it is a chance that probably 5 years down the line to get rebooted to something new?

[Coconut1214]

While I agree that the comics shouldn't change to fit the movies mostly because the movie watchers are not going to be buying the comics anyway.

However the movie side and the comic side are completely separate, if the comics change to fit the movies that is on them. No one asked them to change. The movie side doesn't care what the comic side is doing. Marvel Studios is a separate business from Marvel comics.

I also think the only people that can be blamed for the changes made to comics are the comic writers. They introduced the many changes and reboots long before the movies were made. They decided to open up the multiverse making it so anyone can do whatever they want with the characters and call it a different universe.

For me the MCU is just a another universe where different things happened and things were changed. It's even called the Marvel Cinemtic Universe. It's not any different then them making a universe where Supeman was found by the Russians. So I don't feel like they did anyone dirty, in this universe Hank and Janet worked for Shield and made contributions but didn't found the Avengers. Then if I want I can go read the comic universe where they did. That's what they introduced the multiverse.

Marvel is even doing a whole What If series with their all movies. I think the first one is what if Peggy Carter was given the super Solider serum.

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by eternalfate (View Post) ^ Is there any chance those that Marvel will remake these movies again? I know Marvel really only does it with Spiderman.... it's been so many of the movies. lol So it is a chance that probably 5 years down the line to get rebooted to something new?

I have no idea, Tia. It's possible. It happened with X-Men. But I think it's unfair to fans who love these characters to see them misrepresented like this.

Melissa, that's the entire point. You can't go read the comics to see the Hank and Janet who co-founded the Avengers. The comics fused Hank with Ultron into a human-robot hybrid while trapping Hank's soul in the Soul Gem as a way to conveniently get him out of the way. And Janet has also been sidelined in favor of this Nadia character who even got her own series. Janet never got her own series in the comics, yet this MCU inspired character does?

See, if I want an alternate universe, Melissa, I'll just read What If?, and like you said, Marvel is making their own What If? series, so that's the point of changing things in the MCU this much? But that's not what the movies should be. As Richard Donner himself said when he made his first Superman movie... verisimilitude. He wasn't trying to make any alternate universe version of Superman, he was trying to get at the definitive vision of Superman which is what movies should do precisely because they're movies and not TV shows or comics. You can always reboot TV shows and comics can fix mistakes they make, but films last forever and audiences usually form their opinions on these characters based on what they see in the films, which is why the producers have a responsibility to the legacy of these characters to get it right the first time, not compromise the characters to accommodate overrated British filmmakers(Edgar Wright, this means YOU) who didn't even make an MCU movie. The fact is that Scott and Hope have no business even being in the MCU because there is nothing that justifies their presence, and Hank and Janet are the far more relevant and irreplaceable characters in the Avengers storyline.

And sure, the comic book publishers and writers are the ones responsible for what happens in the comics, but you also have to remember how much influence Hollywood has on what they do because it's all about marketing. Accommodating audiences like you who know nothing about the comics will ultimately influence them regardless of comic book fans. This happened with Spider-Man after Sam Raimi's films came out with their organic webbing crap. The fact is that Hank and Janet earned the right to be in their own story in the MCU and Scott and Hope did not, because it's not their story and Hope doesn't even exist. And as I've said countless times, Melissa, Hank and Janet's exclusion wasn't even necessary nor did it contribute in any way to the integrity or success of the MCU. The Ant-Man films with Scott and Hope didn't exactly burn it up at the box office or anything compared to the other MCU films. Again, it was done purely to accommodate Edgar Wright, and I'd even point out that it violates the most basic rules of storytelling going all the way back to Aristotle, Melissa.

Oh, and may I remind you, not having Adam Warlock be the one to defeat Thanos is like not having Superman be the one to defeat Darkseid in DC comics, Melissa. I'm sure Tia can understand that analogy. Adam Warlock is like Superman meets Luke Skywalker, only with an attitude.

[Coconut1214]

Films are being remade all the time too. So I don't see how they are different than TV shows. In 10/20 years someone else can remake the Marvel comic movies and do what they want with it.

[eternalfate]

No rants or raves today.

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by Coconut1214 (View Post) Films are being remade all the time too. So I don't see how they are different than TV shows. In 10/20 years someone else can remake the Marvel comic movies and do what they want with it.

But will anyone care by then, Melissa? I'm getting worried that we're getting close to the point where it will become redundant. We assume that we have all the time in the world to remake things if Hollywood screws up, but given the direction that things seem to be going, I'm wondering if that's true or not. I think Hollywood is living on borrowed time, which is why I think it's important to get things right the first time. It's not the 90s anymore.

[Coconut1214]

I don't think they need to get it right the first time. The times change, the technology changes. Things need to be updated. While I enjoyed the Christoper Reeve Supeman movie it was so outdated and the flying effects were laughable. I didn't like the story of the more recent Superman movies but the effects were much better and cooler to see.

[PhoenixRising]

Originally Posted by Coconut1214 (View Post) I don't think they need to get it right the first time. The times change, the technology changes. Things need to be updated. While I enjoyed the Christoper Reeve Supeman movie it was so outdated and the flying effects were laughable. I didn't like the story of the more recent Superman movies but the effects were much better and cooler to see.

I'm not talking about technology, I'm talking about the essence of the character, Melissa. Times do change, but that's not a reason to dilute the character or to compromise or betray that character's essential traits or what makes that character work. Trying to always go for the trendy stuff is what ultimately dates a movie. Say what you want about Christopher Reeve's flying effects, he still captured the essence of the character far better than most who came after him. That's what I mean about getting it right the first time, which is get the essence of the character and story as close to right as possible with minimal artistic license so you don't misrepresent the character.

[eternalfate]

Rave: NYCC was fun.
Rant: I am drained.

[stlavin95]

Rant: Rugby World Cup and it's more than likely that Australia will lose their game

Rave: If we lose, it means that Michael Cheika will probably get sacked, which is great for the team

[eternalfate]

^ Nicely done.

[stlavin95]

Yeah, I don't rate him as a coach at all