Summer Falls

thanks wow zoomz so scary

love your two icons are he same

FireQueen

Zoom

For some reason I thought the trailer had footage only from 2x14, 2x15 and 2x16.

Are we sure he's going back in time?

That's my problem with this...Last year Barry never met a future version of himself before the season finale when he goes back in time to save his mom and sees a future Barry with the white emblem and a brighter suit.
If S2 Barry goes back to an earlier timeline (I'm guessing the one with Pied Piper attacking Rathaway Industries) he can't have a confrontation with his past self (and there are filming pics with two Barrys) because that should have been established last year but it wasn't. Not only by that time Barry hadn't met a future version of himself yet, he didn't even know time travel was possible.
I hope what I wrote makes sense

I'm not exactly looking forward to this but you may be right. I still expect Barry to pull an Oliver but IF that happens I think it'll just be about his romantic life.

That's probably more likely

Heidsdk

Oooh thanks for the Comic links zoom is just creepy hehe.

bonnie51

I think so? I seem to remember a spoiler saying something about him going back in time again.

Sooner or later we're going to start seeing the negative side effects of this I'm sure. Right now thus far this season, I don't know that we really have seen any side effect of him going back in time to stop Savage on the Flash.

And if he does it again? I'm sure there will be something

Yeah, right now I'm struggling with the two Barry's and the whole thing right now of him possibly going back in time, etc.

Could be? Although since King Shark shows up at the house, we see Geomancer in the lab and we know the only Breach remaining is in the lab, etc... (or at least as far as we know the only remaining breach)

then it might be broader based.

I mean, everyone around him was always in danger to a degree as people started to figure out his identity, etc... but the next few episodes and Zoom as a villain himself - seem to be taking it to another level entirely.


Whileas the RF was a huge psychological issue, he didn't quite present the same life threatening threat (save for Cicsco, of course) that Zoom seems to. I mean he could have killed any number of them at various points but was more focused on getting home more than anything else.

Zoom seems to be intent on destroying just about anything and everything he can find

Yeah, I kind of hope its that because I'll have a hard time believing anyone actually buys him being responsible for what Trajectory does, etc.

Summer Falls

this i agree with he just wants power and speed its and interesting thing that shouldnt be enogh reason to be so evil

bonnie51

unless it really is Jay and its about him trying to save his own life somehow




anyways, took this out of the episode discussion and moved it over here since it should be here anyways. and yes, its long.






So now I'm wondering... can I go 5 for 5?

Now that I got maybe the most obvious two right....do any of my other 3 theories come true?


1- Decent time ago hypothesized on Barry and iris being married on E2. Relatively obvious / easy one to make.

2- Show has stated pretty bluntly that at least at the moment, there are no plans to bring KF over to Earth One or have Caitlin become KF. Saying its "not on the table" so it was basically just a fluffy appearance.


so, those two turned to be true. now, I feel really strongly about #3, have hope for #4 and realize #5 is probably a long shot at best.



3- With all the momentum building of the current season and E2, I'm not going to go quite 100% but am fairly certain that Barry and Iris will either end up together this season or close to start out that way in Season 3.


as I said, that one I feel pretty strongly about



4- Jay being Zoom. This one, IDK. Don't feel as great about it but really, Henry being Zoom doesn't do much for me since he's been fishing all season and we really haven't seen him much even in Season 1. Eddie? He would just be an E2 bad guy and we already saw that with Linda, Dr. Light, Deathstorm and Killer Frost. Because it can't be E1 Eddie because Zoom was about to kill Jay when the breach opened, ie he already existed before Eddie died.

It being Jay who came over, worked his way into the team and has been under their noses the whole time? and even had Caitlin working to save his life or make him faster? that, that would be interesting and a nice plot twist.

so for viewing purposes, I'm pulling for #4 though I doubt they do that and make it his doppleganger.


5- Presuming Zay does not end up being Zoom or working with him in some way, I still t hink there is a slight chance Caitlin leaves at the end of the season - even if its temporarily.

This one, I have the least amount of confidence in but honestly, its also one I just can't shake. Presuming the writers have any kind of purpose to having tied her so strongly - and randomly- to Jay and he's not the villain of the story - it makes sense to have her go back to Earth 2.

Either that and or miss Episodes in Season 3 because she travels to E2 to spend time with Jay, etc.

Because its so shoved in your face its incredibly crappy writing IMO if it doesn't lead to her going to E2 or missing time in Season 3 to be on E2 if Jay's not the bad guy. Even early this season before they become a thing she said she wished he hadn't gone. Then you had of course RF come back but she wasn't worried about that or the colleguae that was kidnaped, but was worried about Jay. And now of the "original" Star Labs team, she was the only one not to go to E2 to stay behind to help save Jay and try to get him his speed back....

I'm just saying. I feel like they are hitting me in the head with a two by four that he's going to ask her to come back to E2 with him and she will (again, on the basis that he's not Zoom or somehow working for him or connected, etc.)

And furthermore, is also what's lacking. Sure, there was the scene in the promo of her and Barry having a chat or them maybe going somewhere together? or maybe that was Jessie. It was hard to tell.

But other than that... really, until the good byes last episode the last time she and Cisco talked by themselves was what... the Grodd episode when she pinched him when she was mind controlled? And Turtle's with Barry and the last time she really talked to Wells was... Grodd's episode? Or the cross over when again she stayed with someone from E2 (granted, Wells, in this case)
for the cross overs.

Other than telling Joe to stop hitting Wells (2x06, Tar Pit) she hasn't really spoken to him since.... ? I almost want to say 2x06. Could be wrong.
And I don't think that she and Iris have even talked or interacted this season. And they barely did in Season One.

So looking to Arrow, even people who were on the outside looking in of the original Team Arrow interacted with everyone.

Thea had some great scenes with Diggle, interacted of course with Laurel, and took a little longer for her to get with Felicity but 2 out of 3. Laurel didn't interact a ton with Diggle but obviously did with Thea , Oliver, etc. So again, at worst, 2 out of 3. Even before they knew what exactly was going on they were in the picture.



so while I most likely am just being paranoid when you:


1- Don't really participate in cross overs or the E-2 cross over by going to E-2 and its the same character

2- an entire season story arc revolves around one character from a different planet and guest star ( Patty was half a season)

3- the probably biggest character development your character might have eor close to it is "not on the table"

4- don't interact with half of what I consider "Team Flash" and really haven't had much with the other members of the people at Star Labs

5- and probably have known the least about you as a character thru almost 1 and two thirds of the first two seasons

6- all while being in almost every episode / every episode? and this season at least basically just kind of being there rather than actually doing anything? I mean, I like Caitlin and outside of 2x01 and 2x06 - really, I probably could have not watched the season and started now and not missed anything character development wise or having her actually doing something. Maybe the episode with Dr. Stein? Maybe?


7- basically to sum it uo, and this pains me to say it because I don't want to sound like I'm bashing Caitlin because I'm not but - she's been the least important regular of the season.

Unless Jay is Zoom her entire arc this season has literally meant very little to nothing in terms of both the main story line seeing as Barry is the Flash on the show and not Jay and both the long term picture since I doubt Jay is around as much in Season 3 as he is now, even if he isn't Zoom or connected, etc.



and its all the same character? I just have a problem letting all of that go and thinking a character is coming back for a 3rd season on a regular basis.

sorry for the long post again on everything, etc. but while i loved E-2, it has been continuing to weigh on my mind, lol. Will probably move it over to spoiler / Season 2, etc. at some point

FireQueen

I have a feeling Zoom will unmask in front of Barry in this episode but his identity won't be revealed until the end of 2x15, leaving us with a cliffhanger before the break. The show is going on hiatus after 2x15, right?

Can Zoom travel through time in the comics? I read a theory about Zoom being a future version of Jay. Can it be possible that it's Jay and Caitlin working on the Velocity thing that leads to the creation of Zoom? If an accident occurs we can even hope for E-1 Killer Frost.

At first I wanted Zoom to be Henry because it would have somewhat explained why he'd rather go fishing than spend time with his son but now I don't know anymore.

Caitlin going to E-2 at the end of S2 is unlikely but not impossible. What I see as impossible is Caitlin missing episodes. Wally randomly showed up at the police station in 2x13 because he's now a regular and regulars can't miss episodes. Same with Candice having to deliver her sad one line in the crossover.

What did Caitlin do in 2x06? I can't remember...

I think Caitlin's most important episode when it comes to character growth was probably 2x04. She went from point A to point B with her initially being an elitist and not trusting Jax could replace Ronnie as Firestorm and then ending up believing in him. The premiere wasn't bad because she got to express herself over Ronnie's death and got back working with the team.
Caitlin had stuff to do in 2x07 with Grodd and 2x08 with Wells but those episodes didn't show actual character development.

bonnie51

Hmm.. I think so? Not 100% sure but I think you are correct on the break.

AS for him unmasking, perhaps.

If they are basing it on Zolomon, then yes. Zolomon comically was basically someone who never should have been defeatable.

He literally traveled thru time with every step he took because he controlled his time line. Could create sonic booms by snapping his fingers together and was so much faster than Wally (Primary adversary) that even when Wally took on the Flash (Barry AND Jay's Speed) he still just appeared as a blur to him.


Zolomon traveled thru time itslef, moving faster or slower, as he desired. He didn't have the speed force, per say. He could be like Turtle and move at regular speed but cause you to move at a slower speed so it perceived him as moving much faster than what he was, on occasion.

In that regard they are doing a decent job of making Zoom to be almost as unstoppable as Zoom was comically. I know that I saw one theory that said Zoom was Zolomon because of how he caught the bullets - basically that he slowed them down as they approached more, more than him actually going faster in that instance.

Interestingly, in the comics, Zoom temporarily lost the ability to phase so he had to run around the solid objects which would let Wally get away or prevent something because he would have to run around them while Wally could phase thru them.

Well, sure, I'm sure they could do that... but I don't think they will. Comically it was an accident- of sorts - where she was trapped inside a chamber and became Killer Frost. And technically, an "accident" occured with the particle exclerator that caused people to become meta-humans. But to date they saw its not on the table.

Yeah. I mean if the reveal is really supposed to have big impact, then Jay makes the most sense because really if its Henry - sure, Barry'd be devastated and probably Iris/Joe, etc...

but this Wells barely met the man, Cisco and Caitlin have had very little interaction with him, etc. As far as scope of the whole cast goes, it'd be a less huge reveal than Wells in Season 1 being Eobard Thawne. It's also so obvious it almost makes me think its a red herring.


Fair enough though they did miss on Arrow. And the CW can't $ afford everyone, IMO. Unless they got some of them on the cheap, you can't have everyone back in Season 3 and possibly add Jessie as a guest character and do everything else they have been shown to like to do.

Right now 1+1= 3 for me with everyone coming back as regulars. Even if it wasn't Tom, it makes no sense for Wells to go back to E2 since it appears Jessie is now on E1. And vice versea.

Caitlin is just the most obvious character.Tied to one that might be leaving and not really have a S/L.


Interestingly, perhaps a new theory on Jay? Is that he is really Edward Clariss, a professor and rival of Jay's who looked identical but his speed force was based entirely off of Velocity 9, etc. which again would fit with Jay not having the speed force in him when he came over, etc...

so he might not be Zoom but be a plant? by Zoom? that could work too.


^^

my bad on the episode, meant 2x04. was mis-remembering the order.

bonnie51

saw an interesting theory on tumblr...


what if the person we knew as Jay was Everyman from Earth 2? What his name her again?

We know he could make himself look like anyone he touched but he couldn't take their powers - which again explain why he needed the Velocity serum in order to save wells or to take on the Geomancer, etc... and why it never stayed in his system. and why there was no sign of the speed force in his body when he came thru the breach.

and maybe Zoom had sent him thru to get close to them and learn more about them? it might also explain why he had to "nap" during the Geomancers attack if it took that much out of him lol

Heidsdk

dunno everyman or whatever, but it does sound possible

see for me this would also make sence thats why he killed jay because he didnt eant him to have the speed? or?

bonnie51

everyman was from 1x19 when he made people think Eddie killed those police officers and that Barry was in the lab and kissed Caitlin, etc... so he can look and sound like anyone. Also was the decoy Wells used that Joe shot in 1x20 or something like that.


Do we know that Zoom knew he was he was killing or that he just wanted to kill someone and stuck his hand thru the only person's chest he could?

scclarke

promo images for the next epi x

bonnie51

thanks. family gatherings at the West, skull cap time with the Diggles (and a random Argus guy who might be likely to die wearing glasses) and then apparently them tracking Killer Shark with a lab top.

or so it seems lol

Heidsdk

oooh right okay makes sence now thanks

hmm i believe he maybe just reached out his hand to try and get trough and just stuck it trough jays chest, maybe it was just a coincidence? hehe.

aww west family time soo cool

thanks for the promo pics

bonnie51

well... the show's done it. its finally ticked me off enough that I might be done. Just see the synopsis for 2x16 so I apologize for the rant about to ensure.



I just.... I just can't. I can take the rushed, badly written romance of Jay and Caitlin. Didn't like it, didn't want it, but I can accept it and move on and enjoy the show for the most part.

I can accept plot holes and lack of character development - rant about it at times, sure, but I'll stay on the channel and watch.


But this.... this... THIS???? This I can't take.

Zoom's hand WENT THRU THE MIDDLE OF HIS FREAKING CHEST! And yanked him backwards thru a time loop hole with said hand... and now, not only is he going to survive THAT... but is in good enough condition to survive being tortured? Seriously?

Never mind that NO ONE else has survived this - Cisco, Reverb, Death Storm, Iris co-worker / supervisor's name was last season, etc.

And I don't want to hear an explanation of "oh, he didn't grab his heart" crap. I don't care. One does not survive someone punching their hand thru your chest wall.

And then... NOT ONLY surviving that and traveling thru a breach, then getting tortured but surviving that as well.

On the one hand perhaps I shouldn't be surprised given the show's example (Arrow) and its lame reasons people are still alive or brought back from the dead or that it has to do with Super powers, etc. But I hoped, and I prayed, that if the Flash chose to have someone put their hand thru another person's chest - something that logic tells me would kill them - that that person would stay dead unless Barry ran back in time and prevented the death.

If they wanted Jay to be alive so much so they can continue the forced and boring relationship with Caitlin, fine, have Barry run back in time to save his ass. Do that. At least then I could buy a reason that existed in canon on the show for his survival.

But don't do THIS and expect me to keep watching. Where something that has been fatal to anyone and everyone before is now not because of #reasons - and expect me to watch. and it really doubly sucks because after the last few episodes I felt to some degree like it was back to being the show in Season 1 that I loved to begin with and my excitement level was building.

not only that... if your not willing to kill off a guest character who by all rights should be dead considering Barry supposedly almost died from Zoom punching him. Not beating a hand thru his back and then back out thru his chest but by punching him repeatedly in 2x06... Zoom broke his spine with a punch. Not putting his hand thru his back and out his chest.

then I'd have a hard time accepting any level of danger for anyone on the show. ever. obviously Barry and iris were never dying anyways. but even side characters now, and supporting characters. To me a show works when you show there is real risk - life and death even - to what they are doing. There's a real threat out there, etc... and now? Now I know damn well zoom's not killing anyone else from Earth One or Jay / Wells / Jessie unless its some random cop or reporter or something. Not to mention that, with just like every other damn part of the Jay/Caitlin thing being almost a blatant rip off of her and Ronnie from Season One ... now that can continue too! Yay! Because now he's dead /presumed dead and missing only to reappear. Yay lazy and recycled story lines!

so Zoom's going to kill people he knew and who worked for him but someone he had previously tried killing according to the show - nope, he's going to keep him alive because #reasons.

Maybe I'll watch again in Season 3. Don't know. And I'll probably watch parts on you tube and if its alright probably stick around here for a while cause I've enjoyed talking to everyone. I can accept a lot from a show but this... I stopped with Arrow after Oliver Queen got stabbed in the chest by a sword, kicked off a mountain and lived. And Sara came back from the dead. But like I said, I hoped and I prayed that the show wouldn't do something similar. Clearly, I was wrong.