Charlone

I liked her so much on this last episode. She giving those hugs to her father and to Oliver. I'm really sad that Noah left.

BlueDog9

If he values his criminal doings more than he does her, then it's good that he left.

JustmissRiss23_

I liked the scenes between Felicity and her father. I would have liked to see him a bit more, but maybe he will come around in the future. Who knows.

Charlone

^I'm with you. It was really nice to see them together. Probably he'll be back in a future, but I hope that doesn't become in a trouble. I don't want to see another Malcolm, or an Andy.

BlueDog9

I'm sure he'll be back eventually. Definitely don't make him like Malcolm.

JustmissRiss23_

Yeah, completely agree.

IBelieveInMiracles

This is is why part of why I wanted them to take any redeeming of Papa Smoak slow. They've been burned by family members too many times at this point. Handing out trust like it's candy makes no sense. Granted he really isn't evil like MM and Andy but still he's made a lot of bad and hurtful choices so he needs to earn redemption not have it handed to him. I mean Donna's secret doesn't actually change all that much. He gave her every reason to take Felicity and leave and he still chose to stay away. He didn't go after them and try to convince Donna to let him be in Felicity's life. He didn't try to change to deserve to be in her life. He didn't give up his criminal activities so he could be in her life. So really he still did abandon her, he wasn't the one who packed up and left but he still abandoned her by choosing his criminal activities over her and staying away for 19 years even when she was in school at MIT and Donna couldn't have stopped PS from being around her. Keeping tabs on her means nothing really when he never tried to contact her ever. So he still was a selfish criminal who didn't make the effort to be in her life. And he did it again in 4x22. Donna told him to leave but she couldn't force him to do anything, he's a grown man. He basically agreed with her that he can't change and he chose his criminal activities again. So nothing is fixed because of Donna's secret and it's really not her fault he's gone either. She probably wouldn't have made it easy on him if he stayed but she couldn't really force him to leave, that was his choice. So anyway my point is he needs to earn it, so I'm glad they aren't rushing it. I'm sure he will be back though and and hopefully if the plan is to redeem him they continue to take it slow, for tv anyway, so it will be real and meaningful.

BlueDog9

Well said and I agree.

backstreetboysfan

BlueDog9

Ultimately, it was Noah's choice both times and both times he didn't pick her.

JustmissRiss23_

and I completely agree....Forgiveness will not come quickly when it comes to Noah. it will take time for Felicity to forgive him. A situation like this I know ALL to well and forgiveness has to be earned back not just handed to. It will be nice to see that gradual earning of trust back with them.

Charlone

I wouldn't think that this second time he "didn't pick her". He was forced to do so.

BlueDog9

It was his choice to do what Donna said to do. So yes, it was his choice.

JustmissRiss23_

I feel like in a way though, he was choosing to do what he thought was best for Felicity to leave.

IBelieveInMiracles

He is a grown man. Donna can't force him to do anything. Like I said she probably wouldn't have made it easy on him if he stayed but she can't force him to leave. That's his choice. And sure maybe he thought it was best for Felicity but that meant he agreed with Donna that he couldn't change and be deserving of Felicity. Which meant he didn't even want to try to change, it meant he chose his criminal activities over Felicity again. That's why despite Donna's choices he still ultimately has abandoned her twice. Because he never tried to give up his criminal activities and he never put in the effort to change and try to be in Felicity's life. For 19 years he didn't make the effort to try to change and then he sort of gets a second chance and he made the same choice. So he may love her on some levels but he still has chosen himself and his criminal activities over her twice now. I'm not saying Donna is necessarily 100% right in all her choices but he's still the bad guy here because he keeps choosing his criminal activities and the easy way out of not trying to change and be better for Felicity. He's basically made the choice to abandon her twice now. Doesn't mean one day he can't earn forgiveness and trust from Felicity but he's still screwed up big time in his choices regarding Felicity and he's a long way off from full on forgiveness and trust from her.


It's kind of like how Samantha put Oliver in a terrible situation but he still chose to lie.The situations aren't really the same at all but the idea of either men having no choice in the matter is the same. In that it's wrong. They both had a choice, maybe not any super good choices but they had a choice. Also Oliver's situation was more understandable than Papa Smoak because he's a criminal and brought it on himself and was being selfish most of the time not trying to be in his child's life and not lose someone else he loves like Oliver. And Samantha's choices, demands and stuff made way less sense and were way more drastic than Donna's choices so yeah very different situations but still at the core they have the similarity of both men had a choice. They can't just blame Samantha and Donna and absolve themselves. They had choices and they are responsible and culpable for the choices they made.