melon_collie

Uh-Oh... you're doing it again, Nicole. I'm starting to get ideas now...

street serenade

You're becoming the queen of unconventional YA ships

melon_collie

A title I would cherish, which is funny because I ship YA's most conventional ship first and foremost.

I wonder though, do you think Ryder would use Will for his own gains (as we've seen him do already) or do you think he actually feels something substantial for him?

street serenade

Oh, Ryder would be about the cat and mouse games for sure. At least in my mind anyhow. The whole thing would be entertainment for Ryder, while Will would just get confused by it all.

Is it weird that I think Will's the straighter of the two? I mean Ryder had a more dominant personality, sure, but I think he wouldn't fret over being with another boy as Will would. Or maybe I've just seen too much QAF:UK...

melon_collie

No, I definitely agree about Ryder having a more open mind. He seems to be the "sex is sex" type, while Will is definitely more sheltered and probably more traditional. I mean, he seemed to hit on everything that moved in Rawley, regardless of age, gender and the fact that he was mocking them at the same time. He has no scruples.

street serenade

Exactly, Will fancies himself a bit of a poet, a romantic. He's looking for a princess, someone to woo...and Ryder wouldn't exactly fit that description.

avasadie

Ryder is definitely more the "sex is sex" type. I think will would be really hesitant at first, but then would inevitably fall under Ryder's charms.

s e r e n i t y

Yeah I don't really see Will with Ryder, not that anyone will ever be able to resist Ryder but Will doesnt really come off as someone wild looking for an adventure, he's more calm and as you guys said, romantic.

melon_collie

^ Although Ryder would probably realize this and convince Will that he was actually a tortured soul & not just a school bully. I wouldn't put it past Ryder to play to Will's weaknesses.

avasadie

^ Yea and Will would probably fall into Ryder's hands like putty, if Ryder gave Will even a chance to give his "I'm a poor townie" speech.

street serenade

Speaking of Will's poor boy shtick, I love Ryder's impersonation of Will in 'Gone'. 'I'm so poor, please take pity on me'. That was cute.

wolkenfuehlen

I love that, too! So adorable.

s e r e n i t y

Hmm Im kind of biased when it comes to Ryder but yeah love that impression

Finnegan

My impression is that he hits on them in order to mock them -- or to destroy them, e.g., in Caroline's case, in order to make her despair of love. And he does it selectively: those who he cannot mock or harm by sexual means, he does not flirt with or hit on.

Krudski seems to be Ryder's preferred target of malice in YA, more so even than Fleming. Why?

-- On the adult level of meaning, it's surely because he's the narrator, the guy in whose head the dream of Rawley exists, the guy on whom it all depends; destroy Krudski and you destroy the school of true love.

-- But on a more naive level, isn't it simply because Krudski tries to be open and vulnerable as a matter of principle? As Antin put it, he's the kind of guy you want to take care of, to protect -- and I think that's because he won't protect himself, he deliberately leaves himself open and vulnerable emotionally, to such an extent that it's almost feminine, although far from effeminate. He does this in order to love and be loved emotionally -- that's what he goes to Rawley to learn to do, after all. Nevertheless, it leaves him open to Ryder's sexual innuendo. Ryder takes huge pleasure in showing Krudski the cost of being delibrately vulnerable, of staying emotionally open. He's trying to make Krudski erect defenses, leave himself less open to love.

Isn't that what is Ryder trying to do by means of all his sexual innuendo with Krudski in YA?

And isn't it "hot" chiefly because Will so often pauses to consider giving Ryder the benefit of the doubt, hoping against hope that this time, Ryder might not be abusing him, always looking for a way to salvage Ryder? They're both straight; but Ryder would bed Will if he thought he could destory Will by doing so, and Will would bed Ryder if he though he could save Ryder by doing so. For both of them, sex is a weapon of moral conflict -- much as it is a tool for Fleming, who has to learn to be gay in order to save Pratt emotionally. That subordination of sex to kindness (or destructiveness, in the case of Ryder) is simply sexier than sex for sex's sake; it is, second only to reproduction, what sex is for in a social species -- social glue. When we watch these scenes, we want Will to stay open and somehow save manage to save Ryder, don't we?

Ryder's way of attacking Krudski is quite different from his way of attacking Fleming (whose destruction would harm Rawley almost as much as Krudski's). Fleming is not open at all, he's reserved; he never lets anyone, even Jake, know all of what he thinks. Ryder-Fleming sexual tension could be powerful, given that Somerhalder and Hunnam have the best male bodies in the show -- but there is none. The characters don't allow for it. Ryder never flirts with Fleming because Fleming's not open and vulnerable enough to be hurt that way.

Forwood4Bamon

I watched those episodes with Ryder. This is an interesting thread.