Jewelstone

Everyone on this show has manipulated someone else for their own purposes. Is everyone a bad guy?
I don't see good guys and bad guys, I see a bunch of selfish people doing whatever it takes to get what they want. I also see no difference between Shane sacrificing a bunch of people to get his family back (if that is what he's doing) and Jeremy killing thousands of vampires to get a cure for his sister. Depending on how they look at it, Jeremy could even be seen as worse than Shane.

bonnie51

not everyone has had 12 people sacrificed or convinced the council members to blow themselves up, without knowing for certain that Silas is even going to bother to bring them back. or bring up the fact that when someone's mad at you and you're not getting your way you bring up a painful memory of a loved one dead and gone.

And yes, I'd say most of the characters on the show aren't really heroes or heroines.

Which is fine. It makes it more lifelike since most people operate in that murky ground and area...

but Shane having the hybrids get slaughtered and having the council blow themselves up, taking away people's parents and loved ones all because you want yours back? yes, that makes him worse to me.


Elena's selfish. She does whatever she can to get what she wants. as does Damon/Stefan. But IMO, Shane is as bad as them. He manipulates without a thought to the people he hurts.


I love the actor. The actors does a marvelous job at pulling it off and deserves praise for that.

and no, I don't see Jeremy being worse than Shane. Simply because, was Kol trying to kill him when he killed Kol? Yes, because they didn't have the plan to kill him until AFTER Kol compelled Damon to kill Jeremy and wiped out the vampires that Klaus had made for Jeremy to kill. That's after the fact.

The council hadn't tried to kill Shane. The hybrids probably didn't even know who Shane was. Killing people who were not a threat to you or someone you cared about is completely different than killing people who have no idea who you are.

Not to mention some, not all of those vampires that were sired by Kol were probably killing other people because they could. Not all, but some. So in theory, while some innocent people died, some also were saved. Who exactly has this plan of Shane's saved? No one. it called for the deaths of people whom he had never met and people he had no reason to really fear, himself really. And he did it by lying and manipulating people into helping him.

I love the actor. And I like the character of Shane because the show needs someone like him since the writers have screwed up Klaus being the villain so bad and we needed someone like him. But he is the bad / not nice guy on the show opposite Klaus.

eternalfate

Thanks for all the info on Shane, well although some of you may call him a manipulator, isn't he to thank for how strong Bonnie is becoming? isn't he kind of her mentor to getting her stronger?

bonnie51

yes.... sort of . He's prodded her into expression which seems to be stronger magic.

but since we don't know how much about expression yet I don't know how much stronger he made her or if he just made her much more volatile and in a sense, unstable.

She's stronger but if she's no longer really in control of her magic?

Then she is stronger... but not to me at the same time

eternalfate

Be honest, I think if I watched all the episodes of Season 4. I'll be a Shane supporter. Well... it depends how this whole storyline ends with him....

Jewelstone

Agree to disagree then because I don't think Shane is any worse than most of the other characters.
If they just wanted to end the compulsion and keep Jeremy safe, then they could have daggered Kol. Stefan got the dagger from Rebekah, he could have given it to Jeremy and in the meantime, don't invite Kol in the house. But no, they specificly said that they wanted to kill Kol and his entire line to complete the mark. They don't care about those thousands of vampires dying, they don't care about possibly raising the most powerful and evil creature known, they only care about the cure. At least Shane has the naive impression that the 24 people sacrificed (not even close to the number of vampires sacrificed for Elena to be human again) will be brought back to life.

bonnie51

Which makes more sense. killing someone whose trying to kill you ( not daggering them so then he can come back and kill you later) or killing them?

Which makes sense. Killing one person or having Damon/Klaus/Stefan running around killing INNOCENT people, not "good" vampires but people so Jeremy can then kill those hundreds or thousands of people who did nothing. Shane needed the mark to be completed too, so one way or the other the vampires were going to die.


They know that by killing Kol the mark's done and the compulsion ends.
Shane doesn't even know that Silas will raise the dead.


I don't mind Shane for what he is. Like I said, like the character just like I liked someone who IMO did similar things but he's but Bonnie, Jeremy , etc, all in danger while not being honest.


They choose to help Elena for some unknown reason. But they do it knowing they might die, etc, are at risk.

Jewelstone

Kol was daggered for a hundred years, he could have been gone for another century. If they thought that daggering Kol wouldn't do anything because he'd just come back to kill them later, then why did they plan on daggering Rebekah? Wouldn't they have thought that she would also come back and kill them later?

I don't even know what you mean by this. Either way, they would be killing lots of vampires for their own selfish desires. Just like Shane killed lots of people for his own selfish desires.

They also know that they committed genocide. They simply don't care.
Shane firmly believes that Silas will bring back everyone who died.

bonnie51

he was gone because Klaus wanted him gone... what if Klaus decided he wanted him back?

Rebekah is not completely homicidal like Kol or Klaus for the most part. She just hooked up with Stefan after Stefan played a role in daggering her last time.


And again, Shane wants them to complete the mark. He doesn't care about the vampires anymore than anyone else does.

What's not to understand? Klaus had turned a town of people into vampires for Jeremy to kill. Kol killed them to stop the mark and then set about trying to kill Jeremy.

You think Klaus would have stopped slaughtering people to turn into vampires who he then would have served up to Jeremy on a silver platter?

Jewelstone

Are you forgetting that Rebekah tried to kill Elena after she daggered her? Or that she sent a werewolf after her, Stefan, and Caroline?

This is exactly my point and what I've been saying from the beginning of this discussion. None of them care about who gets hurt or killed as long as they get what they want. Shane is just like them, no worse and no better.

bonnie51

here's why he's worse to me:

he had this planned from the beginning. Its to me basically the difference between murder and pre-meditated murder.

Shane orchestrated the whole thing like a mistro.
Elena, while not caring that thousands of vampires died, had no plans to kill Kol until he threatened them.

Shane planned to kill people who posed no threat to them.
Elena planned to kill someone who wanted to hurt someone she loved.


While I might not agree with Elena, I can understand that train of thought

Dana_ar

Well, I like Shane. And I love his scenes with Bonnie, they have chemistry.


I totally agree with you. I guess it all depends of the point of view. Almost all the characters have had questionable behavior.

Regulus-Fan

I agree with Jewelstone´s posts

Wonder what the explaination will be so that Shane can leave his cell and go with the group to the island or if it is happening offscreen and therefore won´t be mentioned.

Disturbia

With the whole tombstone having Qetsiyah's blood on it, I am thinking she still may come to play somehow, I am wondering why Massik? wanted to haved the tomnstone in the first place? Silas is out, what the hunters were meant to do failed so I am wondering if we will see her this season?

Regulus-Fan

That was an interesting fact with the tombstone made out of the Qetsiyahs blood.
But Bonnie should get it and not that Massak guy, but he is dead, right? Probably Katherine got it ... I hate this so much.