Cmtaylor531

I love the gumbo scene but i still stand by #7 being the best.

starryeyesxx

I was thinking about all this the other. Not so much the Joel side of it, but when we were talking about Wade needing time before he gets into things with Zoe again, I was thinking about the things they need to talk about.....& realized that it's probably not going to happen. I was hoping for a more in depth conversation in 3x22, because not only should Wade be wondering what the hell was going on with Zoe in s3 & how she suddenly went to being in love with him again, but the audience really has no idea what was going on with her feelings either. I wish they could just clarify a few things, but I really don't think they will & we'll just have to make do with what we've got

BlueDog9

We probably won't see any conversations about the big past issues

Cadenf

Did he not know or was it just really that her timing was bad in the finale? I mean, he was leaving, why then to tell him was probably what he was thinking? (I really don't know which is why I am asking)

He was saying in 3X05 that she loved him. But granted a lot of time had passed since then.

Tracie76

I don't think we'll get a conversation either. All we are left with is to look back and come up with our own explanation and understanding. That is part of why I'm going to rewatch the past season. There has been enough time since I've seen it to have a less clouded opinion, at least I hope. And with next season looking far more promising, it may be easier to get through it and try to see it differently. LOL I don't know. There are worse ways to pass the hiatus, I guess.

But one of the things that I still doubt is Zoe having any idea of how much she hurt him when she sent the email. It seems to me that while she knew he was hurt after the break up with Vivian, she may have attributed it all to the break up with Vivian and not really connected the dots that he was more upset about his past with her. She knew that he was angry with her, but she thought it was because she failed to help with Vivian. And even though Wade didn't really say it, we did have Lemon say it for him. And he also alluded to their history when he said "after all we've been through" in 319.

As the audience, we've always had more insight to Wade's POV. There has always been an obstacle, either George or Joel, that has prevented us from fully getting Zoe's POV so we are just left to guess most of the time because they do an inadequate job of showing what she is thinking and feeling.

He said in 305 and 307 that she loved him. Did he really believe that though, or was he hoping it was still true? That was also never clear. Or was it just a desperate attempt on his part to get some reaction from her? He also told her in 309 that she should ask herself the real reason why she didn't want him dating Vivian. And yet at every turn, Zoe acted like she didn't love him so they probably came a time when he did think that was the truth. Or at least if she loved him that what had happened to them was far too much to overcome.

I still think he was caught off guard by her confession in the finale. He may have known that she loved him, but he may have figured that she'd never admit it. And her timing wasn't the best there either. And also when he told her that he was leaving in 321, if she would have said something then, I think he was more open and would have been far more receptive. I think her telling him she was happy about the job and even talked about him moving in 322 after the town meeting didn't help from his POV. He also couldn't get away fast enough both at the end of 321 and the town meeting when the talk turned to her being happy for him and his moving.

starryeyesxx

I always felt that was desperation personally, I think that he was trying to provoke her & get some reaction out of her so that he'd have something to hold onto to believe that she still had feelings for him....

There are so many things that I feel need to be addressed from that past season. I thought at the time that after the WV break up, Zoe was over the top with trying to make things up to him because it made her have to think about what it was like for Wade when decided not to come back, whereas at the time she didn't have to see it & just went into her Joel bubble. It was kind of a delayed guilt thing imo.

Really, all of this stuff should have come up in the finale. I mean why wouldn't Wade have questioned her feelings & pointed out that she'd spent the last year planning her life with someone else & making an exhibition of how much she didn't have feelings with him, only to want him again suddenly when he's leaving. It just made no sense.

Cadenf

This is why I was asking.

I can see a little bit of both because I do think he knew that she still had feelings, and her jealousy was one prime example.

~~~
And yes, they don't really ever give us insight into Zoe fully so it makes it harder. And yet, in some ways we don't fully have the insight into Wade either.

BlueDog9

Maybe they should have done another press release about her feelings like they did in S2.

Yes, he should have questioned her. Stupid musical number crap was apparently more important.

Tracie76

I think it was more desperation as well. He didn't really have anything as solid proof that she ever loved him let alone still did after all that time other than hope. And hope was all he had to cling to after she returned with Joel and basically told him to move on. He reacted initially with the fake relationship with Lemon, then he tried to be her friend and Joel's, and he was sleeping around as well all I think as a way of trying to deal with things. I think he was hoping for a reaction to give him something more tangible.

I can also see that as why she went OTT with trying to help in him 320 and even helping Earl in 321.

There should have been him asking her why now. That would have been the most logical thing. But then the show has never really done or had the conversations that we thought should have happened at certain times.

Cadenf

Maybe at the end of the day it didn't matter to him? And I know that sounds bad, but I don't mean it that way. But he also didn't just take her right back so we may get something in 4X01?

Does he doubt her ILY?

~~~
I do think that is why she was OTT in 320 and 321. And that is the one thing that sucks is that they don't seem to fully let people ask why. And if it doesn't happen at the beginning of 4X01 is it really a conversation that can come up later?

Tracie76

I think in a way it didn't matter to him because he wasn't open to having any conversation with her about it. He wouldn't even have mentioned her ILY if she hadn't confronted him about it. I think his walls were up and he just wanted to get away.

I don't think he doubts her ILY. Maybe her sincerity or commitment? If that makes sense. Again which is why what she said at the wedding is more important, and even more so that she follows through on it.

As to it coming up past 4x01. I can see some scenarios where it could still come up. It all depends on what happens in 4x01 and if they get back together, how it is done and even what is said. If one thing leads to another with little talking in 4x01 then depending on what else happens perhaps. I'm not opposed to it coming up after 4x01 as long as it is done in a believable way and dealt with without it turning into a huge event which it shouldn't be if they are reconciled since they should be in a better place with better skills to cope with things.

lemers718

I think there was two telling lines by Wade. The first was him saying he did not believe anything was possible and the second is him saying "he thought that once but". I do think he once was holding out hope if he did everything right she would come back. She did only with Joel. Then after trying to gage her with no results he gave up. Then to once again got dumped to another man after doing everything right. I believe the "I am not worth it" feelings were ringing in his ear again.
It would be nice for them to address her out of the blue timing and what happened before Wade caves but just like the cheating it most likely never be addressed. I am glad they at least ended 322 they way they did otherwise it makes Zoe's ILY looked like nothing but an act of desperation.

BTW Yes Tracie I believe Zoe words at the end of 317 were about Wade. I always thought that.


After everything that happened and the timing of it. Why wouldn't he doubt it? She gave no signals to him for over a year and now he is leaving she out of the blue "loves him". It falls back into the past pattern of Zoe expecting Wade to jump whenever she is good and ready. What did she expect from telling him at that point? He was leaving the next day. Did she expect him to stay? Was she willing to go with him?

starryeyesxx

I don't see how the writers could write the season the way that they did & not think that they'd have to address the reasons why they had been apart all season.

I don't think it will come up in 4x01, just because it didn't come up in 3x22, does make me think - that even though I don't get it at all - it doesn't matter to Wade, if he was going to ask, I think he would have done then. Although, maybe the writers saw all the criticism around those eps coming out of nowhere, & will realize that they need to throw in something so that the audience can finally understand what it is exactly the writers have been trying to do.

Cadenf

To me, if they are back together then why would it need to come up. But does Wade need to really know before he jumps back in with her. I mean he didn't just jump yet when he does, why wouldn't he have asked before instead of after they are together...because once they are together does that conversation really need to happen? It would have been ideal to come up in one of their following conversations in 3X22 but I know there was not time. I guess if they take 4X01 not long after it is easier to come back up, I just think too much time passing then it doesn't really work.

But yet her proving what she said may be all he really needs and doesn't need or want to dwell on the past?

I fully agree that her words at the wedding were more important..but I also think she needed to say the ILY and did that play into why he stayed?

Tracie76

I just sent Hannah an email about this before reading this. LOL We were talking about 319. I brought up Wade's desperation with wanting to be chosen and winning. Never once did he say he wanted Vivian to pick him because of his feelings for her. He mentioned the relationship and that it was real and that he wouldn't let Charles take her away from him. My husband also mentioned at the time that by Zoe not speaking up on his behalf that it looked to Wade that Zoe also thought that he wasn't worthy once again.

So yes I can see that also playing a huge part in what he is thinking. He did everything right with Vivian and it still didn't work out.

The conversation in 317 was one I went back and forth on. Initially I thought it was Wade. And then we get nothing and with the OTT-ness about Joel, it is just hard to some things when you get nothing. But in hindsight, the conversation has to be about Wade. Joel just doesn't make sense with what was said and the later actions. And it is that one conversation that sticks out to me the most and then makes me wonder about how she was thinking and feeling in the episodes prior and even after which they never bothered to show us clearly.