Nikki K

Borgia (2011) by Tom Fontana
The Borgia (2006) by Antonio Hernández
The Borgias (1981), BBC Miniseries
The Conclave (2006) by Christoph Schrewe and Paul Donovan
Lucrezia Giovane (1974) by Luciano Ercoli
Lucrezia Borgia (1922) by Richard Oswald and Harry Scheff
Lucrèce Borgia (1935) by Abel Gance & Léonard Marchand



Here is a website I found that might prove useful: Bibliography of the Borgia Family. It's not exhaustive but there's a good amount of stuff there.

Original Sources: Burckard's diaries
(1) Johannis Burchardi Argentinensis protonotarii apostolici et episcopi hortani, cappellae pontificiae sacrorum rituum magistri : Diarium Innocentii VIII, Alexandri VI, Pii III, et Julii II tempora complectens : nunc primum publici juris factum, comment
And the English translation:
(2) Pope Alexander VI and his court: extracts from the Latin diary of Johannes Burchardus; : Burchard, Johann, d. 1506 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive


So far discussed or mentioned:

Fiction
- "The Family" by Mario Puzo
- "The Borgia Bride: A Novel" by Jeanne Kalogridis
- "Madonna Of The Seven Hills" by Jean Plaidy
- "Light On Lucrezia" by Jean Plaidy
- "Poison" by Sara Poole
- "The Borgia Betrayal" by Sara Poole
- "Angela Borgia" by Conrad Ferdinand Meyer
- "Vanozza, a novel of the Renaissance" by K.T. Wills
- "Borgia" by Klabund
- "The Pope's Mistress" by Frederik Berger
- "La Tigressa - The Madonna of Forlì" by Frederik Berger
- "The Pope's Daughter" by Frederik Berger
- "The Track of the Foxes" by Fabio Pittorru
- "The Mirages of Naples" by Isaure de Saint Pierre
- "O César o nada" by Manuel Vázquez Montalbán
- "The Ground Is Burning" by Samuel Black
- "Private Renaissance: A Novel" by Maria Bellonci
- "The Prince of Foxes" by Samuel Shellabarger
- "The Passion of Artemisia" by Susan Vreeland
- "The Birth of Venus" by Sarah Dunant
- "Lucrezia Borgia: A Novel" by John Faunce
- "The Bed and the Throne: The Life of Isabella D'Este" by George Marek
- "Leonardo's Swans" by Karen Essex
- "Sins of the House of Borgia" by Sarah Bower
- "Lucrezia Borgia" by Geneviève Chastenet
- "Poison In The Blood: The Memoirs of Lucrezia Borgia" by M. G. Scarsbrook
- "Lucrezia Borgia and the Mother of Poisons" by Roberta Gellis
- "Sisters of Venus" by Frederik Berger


Non-Fiction
- "The Borgias - Celebrated Crimes" by Alexandre Dumas
- "Lucrezia Borgia: Life, Love and Death in Renaissance Italy" by Sarah Bedford
- "The Pope's Daughter: The Extraordinary Story Of Felice Della Rovere" by Caroline Murphy
- "The Life of Cesare Borgia" by Raffael Sabatini
- "Lucrezia Borgia" by Ferndinand Gregorovius
- "The Borgias and their enemies: 1431-1519" by Christopher Hibbert
- "Der Unheimliche Papst" by Volker Reinhardt
- "The Worst Pope - Alexander VI" by Luigi Villari
- "Julius II. - The Warrior Pope" by Christine Shaw
- "Beatrice D'Este - Duchess of Milan, a study of the Renaissance" by Julia Cartwright
- "The Borgias" by Michael Mallett
- "A Renaissance Tapestry - The Gonzaga of Mantua" by Kate Simon
- “Giulia Farnese, a woman slave of her own beauty” by Carlo Fornari
- "Inventaire de la duchesse Valentois, Charlotte d'Albret" by Edmond Bonnaffé
- "Charlotte d'Albret, femme de César Borgia; et le château de la Motte-Feuilly" by Gustave Léon Schlumberger
- "The Tigress of Forli: Renaissance Italy's Most Courageous and Notorious Countess, Caterina Riario Sforza de' Medici" by Elizabeth Lev
- "Caterina Sforza" by Liane von Gentzkow
- "The Prince" by Niccolò Machiavelli
- "The Borgias" by Jacques Robichon
- "The Borgias" by Ivan Cloulas
- "Lucrezia Borgia" by Monica Bellonci
- "The Artist, the Philospher and the Warrior – The Intersecting Lives of Da Vinci, Machiavelli, and Borgia and the World They Shaped" by Paul Strathern
- "Cesare Borgia: A Biography" by William Harrison Woodward


All fanfic can now be found HERE: Dark Paradise which I will try and update as often as possible. If you encounter that I missed anything, let me know and I shall add it instantly.

Also go to the first thread and see what we already talked about!

Nikki K

Perhaps Machiavelli should go more under sources? What do you think?

Also, I added some books I recently came across that are an extension on the Borgia family and therefore putting things into a bigger historical context by focusing on the other families and characters of the time.

So, I'd love to get back into discussing things. Does anyone have a preference on where to start?

Also another question, I watched "Los Borgia" (2006) recently but I cannot recall the picture from a scene in it. Did I miss it or was that a deleted scene? (I heard there are no extras of that kind on the DVD though or am I mistaken?)

ring of fire

I could find three books about The Borgias today I only bought two. The third book was this fiction book about Lucrezia being this innocent angel and just a victim of her family

The books I bought are:

The Borgias - Jacques Robichon
The Borgias - Ivan Cloulas

I'll let you know what I think when I read them

Nikki K

Oh was it one of the Plaidy novels? The Lucrezia one, I mean.

I'll add the others to the list and yes, tell us what you think. Are they fiction or historical accounts?

I'm reading Vasquez Montalban's book now and I think from the way it was written it resembles K.T. Wills' book to some degree. What I do like so far is that it goes a long way back to when Rodrigo and his brother came from Spain with their uncle Calixtus III.

ETA: Perhaps we should bring some order into the book list. Can anyone think of categories?

ring of fire

Both are historical accounts.

The third book was a fictional novel which was written by a french woman called Genevieve Chastenet. There wasn't much about the book online so I decided to read people's comment on it. And the only four people who commented on the book said the book was so much better than other books about Lucrezia because it showed Lucrezia was just a poor victim of her family and she was actually a good person that couldn't have killed anyone. Also that she hated her "awful" brother Cesare and all those rumors about incest were completely false.
The book seem to be so Mary Sue-ish that I didn't even bother to give it a try.

I think we should divide the books into historical accounts and fictional novels

Nikki K

That sounds about like the Jean Plaidy books. I stirred clear of those too. But others seem to have liked them, hence they are on the list.

You are right... fiction and non-fiction. I'll get on it eventually.

Nikki K

I started reading "Leonardo's Swans" by Kate Essex which is about the d'Este sisters (Lucrezia's future sisters in law) and I must say I always resented Isabella d'Este from what I read in Sarah Bradford's biography on Lucrezia and Caroline Murphy's on Felice: It can't be denied that she was a matron of the arts etc. and I remember that Vanora (btw, if you read this, girl, come back here! ) was a big fan of her as she founded schools for girls, but her conduct towards other women always seemed extremely petty to me - from the historical point where according to Bradford and Murphy both young women sought her friendship and approval and were met with indifference or disdain. Now that work of fiction by Kate Essex starts out with Beatrice being dead and Isabella remembering her sister not all that fondly. (Then I remember though from Christine Shaw's biography on Della Rovere, that Isabella granted her half-sister Lucrezia who was married to a Bentivoglio of Bologna - a family Julius II really had it out of - refuge... so I don't know.) I hope to find a good book on her at some point. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Frederik Berger has a new book out which I ordered, it's called "Sisters of Venus". He always only touches on the Borgia but I still like reading his books because they are well researched and give a lot of insight into the other players of the time. I'm curious about this one, it's about Agostino Chigi, the heir of a rich fund of capital, and enriched further after lending huge amounts of money to Pope Alexander VI (and to other rulers of the time as well). He strayed from common mercantile practice by obtaining lucrative monopolies like the salt monopoly of the Papal States and the Kingdom of Naples (something Della Rovere was kind of furious about later as Pope Julius II), as well as that of the alum excavated in Tolfa. The latter was something that he cheated Silvia Ruffini's father out of - remember Silvia who was Alessandro Farnese's concubine and Giulia's best friend.

So Nelly, how far are you with your books? Have you gained any interesting insights yet? Next to the big picture I always love reading about little details, like the fact that I gathered from Mallet's book that Lucrezia and her half-sister Isabella wrote to each other etc. .

ETA: Perhaps someone can help me out, I started reading this one book once but I forgot about it somehow and now I can't recall title or author: It starts out with it being Carnival and Cesare and Lucrezia are dressed up, going around town when Lucrezia begs Cesare that they go and see Vanozza, at least from afar as they are not allowed to have contact with her. Then Lucrezia is attacked by some drunks because she is wearing a peasant dress and Cesare fights them off. Back at the Vatican they run into Juan who is ready for a night about town and both Lucrezia and Cesare beg him to stay because of the hostilities Cesare has caused by killing those two men and they are worried that Juan will get hurt. That is as far as I came. Does it sound familiar to anyone? I cannot remember for the life of me what it was called.

ring of fire

The books is divided in three parts and I'm about to finish the first part. The first chapters are a little bit boring because they are all about Rodrigo's uncle and how he became Pope and all the political implications. Still some parts were interesting like how Rodrigo's uncle helped resolve a conflict when they were two popes. But now the book is starting to describe young Rodrigo's life and it's really interesting. For example they talk about how handsome he was and how all the women found him charming and very attractive.

Nikki K

I thought that was pretty interesting though to learn more about Rodrigo's youth. Like Della Rovere who was incredibly dedicated to his brother Giovanni, the same was true for Rodrigo and his brother Pedro Luis. I found it also interesting that Calixtus III was a compromise candidate, helped avoid another schism and yet he soon became hated by heaps of people because he was very literate when it came to the law. I also thought it was interesting that he did the best he could to provide his nephew's with a proper education. I would have liked to learn more about Rodrigo's mother and his sister Juana.

So I'm really interested in that part, let me know if you find anything to that regard. I think the most striking episode describing his attractiveness to women was that baptism he attended in Siena and which turned into a scandal that Pius II. scolded him for.

Have you watched the movie "The Conclave"? It's actually really good and give a lot of insight into the election process and how Rodrigo had to fight for his life against the Roman families to even get to attend the conclave and how his brother eventually died. It also has the beginnings of his relationship with Vanozza in it, although I have my doubts that part is true, I think he met her much later.

So yeah, let me know if you find anything on Rodrigo's relationship with his family in Spain, anything on the de Mila and the Lanzol Borgia. That's the sort of entanglement I'm incredibly curious about.

I am still searching for that document/letter in which Della Rovere wrote to Rodrigo from Avignon how truly happy he was about the engagement of Rodrigo's niece to his nephew. I'd really like to find out more about that relationship... perhaps for the purpose of writing something, should my writer's block ever be cured. (That Lucrezia/Sancia smut piece, I promised someone, is so not helping. Feeling the need to keep everyone in character. )

BL.Arinna_1982

Does Ellie posted her CL already?

Nikki K

I don't think so.

I will try and update the Fanficition list today though.

BL.Arinna_1982

Tell me when you do that. I need me more fanfics to read.

Ok, gtg home and watch the new eppisode right now.

be back soonish.

Nikki K

I've updated La Liste. Sadly the focus of the Kink Meme is mostly on slash (nothing against that at all, there is some interesting stuff there but I'm dying for new CL fic).

In the hopes it attracts somebody here: Borgias Kink Meme. HERE is the list with filled and unfilled prompts, one of the mods was so kind to put together. Perhaps you find something that inspires you.

BL.Arinna_1982

I would write more if I wasn't so lazy.

Nikki K

Here's a suggestion: Stop being lazy?
(I did my part/a part for the time being... perhaps more later if I happen to feel inspired in my anonymity.)