il valentino

Are you kidding? I have a hard time READING past Cesare getting sick (and I know the outcome), much less watching Francois acting it out. I would just dissolve into a pool of bitter, desperate tears....

"The article where some tidbits of the SE4 script were revealed referred to "a salacious and morally questionable scene between his character and Caterina" - these were the exact words, so it does show that either a brutal rape or a brutal beating scene would occur. I am inclined to believe it's the former because I don't see Cesare taking a brutal beating to a woman. or maybe he will let his soldiers rape her? Hmm, I don't know."

Yeah, me either. I don't know that "a salacious and morally questionable scene" necessarily translates to a brutal rape, but I guess it's possible. I'm also thinking about Jordan's comment about their quasi-sexual relationship on the way back to Rome, so I'm not sure that his wording leads me to believe that it would have been as cut and dried as "a brutal rape."

nataliece

A quasi-sexual relationship on the way to Rome was not present in the show. It was probably cut, so NJ did not want to accentuate C/C scenes and went for further romanticizing of C/L line and the way he ended the series with them together leads me to believe that season 4 would have a lot of C/L scenes... "One morally questionable or salacious scene with Caterina" does not necessarily translate into a brutal rape scene but it does translate into something degrading. So what Cesare would do to her - rape her himself or let others rape her or something else - is left in the air and to our imagination)) I still have a hard time believing shwotime cancelled the show!!!

il valentino

Sorry to be unclear. I was attempting to take what the writer said as an indication of how he thinks about the Cesare/Caterina relationship and then trying to make a stab at what he might do with that relationship in the future, so yes, I do realize that this was not present in the show. Still not sure about what I think another scene with the two of them would look like though...

Also not convinced there would be lots of C/L scenes, some I think, but I feel Jordan would have carried through with the idea that they are doomed once they have crossed the Rubicon.

nataliece

Jordan never wanted to take C/L route in the first place. Throughout SE1/2 he talked about that and then in SE3 he changed his mind and went for it so...crossing the Rubicon changed the nature of their relationship but not the closeness and love they felt for each other. As for being doomed, of course, they would be doomed 'cause they were siblings...C/L scenes would be unavoidable in SE4, if he were to make it. Of course, their scenes would have a proportional running time to Cesare's Scenes as the great Prince but they would be an essential part of the season...

DGSAFDMD

I think we would have got CL scenes mostly in the beginning of the season but plenty of angst and then when she had to marry again. Then again, I am not quite sure how they would have played it with Lucrezia.. cause she was going to the dark side and then pulling back from it, it was like that all season. I would have loved to see Lucrezia sleeping with ... I can't remember the guy's name.. the one who's wife went nuts and killed herself.. just because that would have been totally awkward, and she would have done it not for pleasure (I mean, he's not her type in this show) but to gain something. Femme fatale at the fullest, man! Guy always wrote them in a very "epic" and romantic way.. so it would have probably stayed the same for him but Jordan would have probably written them more sinful and dark... another thing I would have liked to see.

Kadre

Yes, let`s not forget that during the show they took some freedom with the time line of events. I don`t think NJ would pass up something this juicy completely; he would just try to find place for it that suits the story. About Ces raping Cat; from their first encounter he knows that she enjoys being put down. Considering the way he treated her after her capture, a brutal rape, let alone a gang rape, does not fit the picture, and if you think of it, every single one of their encounters has been salacious; even the one at Lu`s wedding was full of double entendre. Cat always wanted Ces, and he knows it.

About Ces/Lu being doomed; I think the only thing really dooming them is their guilt, if they could move beyond that they could live happily ever after, at least until dellaRovere kills Rod, and sets the Borgia downfall in motion.



Natalie, with sideline I was referring to Ces/Cat, not Ces/Lu.

DGSAFDMD

And that last clip in The Prince didn't say doomed to me... I mean they would have probably crashed and burnt in S4 but later in that season.. or movie whatever it was written.

nataliece

Guy and Jordan kept a perfect balance between Epic and romantic and sinful and dark, didn't they? And they would have maintained it till the very end. There are some historical facts about C/L like Cesare stopping his military campaign to go and stay with sick Lucrezia, etc, and they would absolutely use those facts in the show. The angst-y part would probably take place in the first episodes of SE4 but afterwards, they would be together in every sense - Jordan's dark and sinful siblings in Guy's romantic and epic love - together...

il valentino

You mean Gonzaga. Interestingly, some have surmised that the reason that Lucrezia slept with him was to get some sort of help for Cesare. He was an extrememely interesting character...was full on with just about everything...boys, girls, farm animals....I think I read that the reason she stopped the relationship with him is that he contracted syphillis, but who knows.

and Kathrin "About Ces/Lu being doomed; I think the only thing really dooming them is their guilt, if they could move beyond that they could live happily ever after, at least until dellaRovere kills Rod, and sets the Borgia downfall in motion."

Yes definitely theire own guilt, but I think societal norms as well.

and May "And that last clip in The Prince didn't say doomed to me... I mean they would have probably crashed and burnt in S4 but later in that season.. or movie whatever it was written."

True enough. I'm not saying they wouldn't have been together, but there will always be other pressures involved, which I think would have begun to take over in S4. Cesare really hasn't reached his zenith yet, so we haven't seen the full breadth of his ambition.

Kadre

I should have said they could have secretly lived happily ever after.

DGSAFDMD

I would have KILLED to see that in the show. God damn it. I freaking cried when I read story

nataliece

And the letter where he signs -" Your brother who loves you more than himself?"

BL.Arinna_1982

Can I say that I share your opinion here, May?

DGSAFDMD

Yeap, and he loved himself quite a lot in real life, it seems

Fay the Greek

Agree totally May

He is definitely complex. His relationship with Lu is burdened with guilt, and


Kim Natalie AND Kathryn you Nailed it! I beklieve that his feelings, and relationship with Lu have NOTHING to do with his feelings and relationship with Caterina.

Lu is his ETERNAL love, HIS CHINK IN ARMOUR, HIS WEAKNESS. A man so ambitious, so POWERFULL as Cesare, maybe, at some point, subconciously in his heart, hold a "grudge" on her, BECAUSE HE LOVES HER SO MUCH, and thus his is "weak" in what has to do with her.

For Caterina he has NO FEELINGS ( i mean tender ones) so, he feels powerfull, and invinsible when he meets with her to "cross their blades", no weakness there from his part, nor hers. 2 powerfull opponents, focusing only to VICTORY.
As far as he concerns, Caterina is his...let's say "harlot' his one night stand. Just sex, nothing else. Furthermore, Sex between them is a GAME OF DOMINANCE AND POWER. Caterina, is his counterpart in hunger to RULE.

If she was a man, He hould love to fence her, she would be a most worthy opponent, a opponent he hates, but ALSO RESPECTS, bec she has qualities that Ces has too. Malice, leadership, ruthlessness, hunger for war.

But she isn't a aman, she is a woman, so instead of engage in a duel with her...he is having sex to degrade her, to insult her, to subjugate her.

Having sex with her, is for Ces, a different kind of war, of battle, i think.

It is a chess game, and Ces will use all his weapon to destroy her, including animal sex. Nothing to do with his feelings, or his inner self. That is RESERVED for Lu.

So, even if he has some sex with Cat, in S4, i don't mind, it would effect his relationship with Lu i believe. Although i am not certai, how LU WILL TAKE THIS!

Also, i am on the ones that i am almost certain, that this ambigous scene, although sexual, will not be a RAPE in no case. Ces, as we know, has a 'code of honour'. He will never treat her or any woman, like an animal. If this was the case, he probably decline in my eyes as a man, and character. No, Ces i know, RESPECTS Caterina, as i said, as an opponent, and furthermore i don't believe that he is cable of treating any woman like that. Juan YES, BUT NOT CESARE.

Furthermore, wheres the CREDIT ON THAT?? This is TOO EASY, NO SUTISFACTION. Cesare wants sattisfaction in victory he want a truth clear victory, as he is a true leader, a true warrior. No need to do "filthy" treaks. He is TO PROUD TO DO THAT. HE WILL TRY TO 'Kneel" Caterina, to HUMILATE HER.

And there is no better way to do that, than "lure" her, MAKE HER BEG HIM for sex, although he is her enemie, killed her son, and took her prisoner. If he make her A clay in his hand, beg him for this...THEN THIS IS A WORTHY, TOTAL VICTORY FOR HIM.

As for Lu..i don't think she will drow apart from him. The moment she let him claim her, as "HIS', She accepted her Fate.SHE LET HIM MARKED HER, IRREVOCABLY.
Cesare's mate. No room for guilts for Alf. Alf is gone, and she is now a BORGIA, A PROFESSIONAL. Lu in S4, will embrace fullly her dark side, as A Borgia, and i believe that she will belongs fully to Cesare, as his matein body and soul. NO ROOM FOR REGRETS THERE ANYMORE. CURSED TO BE TOGETHER.