Sparklyhairnet

When do you think the neck grab happens? And the scene with the French army? That scene throws me off too--like, does he marry, get the army, come back, have an angry confrontation with Rodrigo AND a confrontation with Lucrezia too but wait they get back together in time for her to be in bed with him while he still has his scars...? The neck grab and where those scars come from really throw me off.

BL.Arinna_1982

I don't think he's going to force her into anything. There must be a reason why he reacted on this way. I highly doubt he'd force his Lucrezia into anything.

sprezzatura

Yes. I wasn't an Ursula fan but that moment was horrible. Lucrezia is a rape victim. Cesare is the person Lucrezia trusts the most in the world and whist we all know he would never do such a thing to her but Cesare forcing her to kiss him or being forceful does not sit right with me. Not saying that I condone Lucrezia hitting him, I don't, but give that Cesare kisses her in such a way is out of line.
Also, as a mentioned before, hopefully my view will change once that episode has aired.

Sparklyhairnet

I don't think he'd ever rape her, but we have to remember that this IS an incestuous relationship. It's screwed up by definition, and I feel like they're both completely out of control. And Cesare in particular has always been a screwed up individual. Lucrezia will only become darker with this relationship as well.

DGSAFDMD

I am so confused.. this is what happens when your day off is the day after a new promo comes out..

I posted my opinion on the forced kiss on tumblr and I really don't want to talk about that here cause.. yeah.

Anyway, have I missed anything?

sprezzatura

Outside of the promo, no.

Seriu

I still think the slap is related to Giovanni being taken. It's the most likely option.

What we know about the slapping scene:

1. She says "Must I trade one love for another?"
2. He says, "It was for the good of the family, we had no choice."
3. WHACK! She is slapping him
4. She says "You had every choice! Where is your honor? Where is your love for ME?"
5. Somewhere in here he decides to kiss her.
6. Somewhere in here we see him turn away with an obviously pained expression. He looks more upset here than when Ursula died, which I find amusing.

Now I am guessing maybe there's a bunch of other stuff said here, we don't know how the kiss turns out, or when this happens. But really, I don't think this context fits with Cesare marrying someone. Otherwise the "must I trade one love for another?" line doesn't make sense.

It does however fit with Giovanni being taken (she is trading her son for Alfonso, plus you do see Micheletto carrying the baby around). This puts the slap scene in the first episode or two. And would potentially mean this is the first kiss (well not really but let's say in this season). And maybe the catalyst for Lucrezia realising her feelings. Also, in episode 2 Cesare goes to Naples to "fix" the problem. So maybe she's not so mad after that, depending what happens. Didn't she stay in Rome historically? And her scenes are mostly in Rome. And we see her with the baby, so maybe she gets him back, or gets to stay in Rome where she can be with Giovanni all she wants.

Ooh I should also add, Alfonso runs off after the wedding. Maybe some of what Cesare does to "fix" the problem scares Alfonso.

Sparklyhairnet

To be honest, I feel like at this point I'd be happier if the slap was about Giovanni, because clearly she, ahem, gets over that. But if they kissed I feel like his shock at the want and wanting would be ooc. Unless later he was like "Remember when I kissed you during our fight? WEIRD RIGHT WEIRD WE'RE NORMAL RIGHT". And Lucrezia brushed him off only to show up naked in his bedroom?

... I could like that.

I do agree that "trade one love for another" makes the most sense in context of Alfonso/Giovanni. And if Cesare realized the magnitude of the situation and went to abort the Giovanni problem, she could forgive him easily.

See, the issue is that "one love for another" doesn't work as well in the context of Charlotte because by then even if the French marriage screws up the political implications of her marriage to Alfonso, she's disillusioned with Alfonso. He isn't a "love", is he?

Katja82

Problem is we don't know if she will say the trade one love line to Cesare. It is just edited that way in the promo. And I don't think such a serious fight and an angry kiss could trigger any positive feelings. So I believe this happens way later after they have been intimate.

Seriu

Yeah if it goes that way, it'll make more sense if she rebuffs his kiss. Too angry and stuff. So then he goes and fixes the problem, because he can't bear to see her so unhappy. Then she shocks the hell out of him by lying naked in wait for him.

The thing is Katja he doesn't seem angry to me when he kisses her. I absolutely do not believe he is being rapey here. Maybe just desperate for her to know that he still loves her? She could be shocked by this and probably slaps his face off. But thinks about her feelings and his feelings after.

DGSAFDMD

THANK YOU. I've been saying/begging that this happens because of Giovanni and not because of the wedding because the more I see from that scene the more over the top it looks if it's just for a wedding! She's marrying/married too.. she has sex with her husband and he has sex with his wife.. it's not that big of a deal.. yes the Naples vs France thing, but she barely knows her husband, is she that deeply hurt that they might kick him off after all?

What could happen is (worst case scenario) Cesare goes and tries to fix the Giovanni situation, fails and agrees with Naples, doesn't tell Lucrezia the marriage happens she has sex with him and then she finds out... or we could go back to A option that was she knows, she's using him/playing with him but to be honest I don't think that's a go anymore.. I just don't know where the want and wanting scene fits here anyway.

Katja82

Ok, angry isn't probably the right word, but would he even dare to kiss her when nothing has happened between them so far?

Seriu

I think it's a spur of the moment thing, and yes. I think he could just kiss her out of passion and desperation. And she probably rejects him, which actually could add to his surprise when he shows up to her room and she's naked.

DGSAFDMD

You never know.. he's desperate.. and he might be trying to tell her with words that he's sorry and that he loves her... because let's be honest, she's all he has... and if she leaves he's screwed in every possible way.. also that face at the end could be a "why the hell did I kiss her?" face.. but I don't know.

Katja82

I would certainly like it more if this fight starts their affair instead of causing a rift. I had another thought, but it's probably total nonsense. I think in History it was Cesare who arranged her third marriage (I think I read something like that) and I can imagine she would be extremely pissed after everything they went through. But that doesn't fit in the timeline if this scene is from an early episode.