red velvet

It's frustrating but I mean I get it from the perspective that they don't intend to make CL real lovers, they're going to have their own people on the side but never really love them no matter what attractions they have to them. CL will always come back to each other because they own each others' hearts

kindness is free

Roxy that art is gorgeous thanks for posting it

Claire - Thank you for that link. I didn't know there was a CL LJ page can someone post the link here please

Chrissy - I agree they will have other relationships on the show as they aren't seen as lovers but nothing will ever compare to the love they have for each other

Roxy87

I get that too. Truthfully, I don't mind Cesare and Lucrezia having side romances since they can't be paired together physically. I didn't mind Luc having her stable boy. He helped her grow up.

At the end of the day, as long as CL continue having an unbreakable bond and a deep love for each other, I'm good.

My problem is with Ursula as a character. She was depicted as too much of a victim or martyr. IMO, her last episode should have been the one where she committed herself to the convent. Then a new, less annoying, love interest could have been brought on for Cesare... as long as that relationship stayed secondary to what CL have lol

claire_bear2007

EXACTLY!!!

I actually don't mind them getting involved with other people (because I'm pretty sure they can't compare to the emotional connection of C/L ) , but a lame character like Ursula is just difficult to watch.

Even if she was paired with Juan, I'd still want her off the show.

red velvet

I can see that point It would be much preferable to me if they only have other LIs who were around for a couple of episodes at a time so it could never really seem like the characters had any attachment for them. But as it stands Ursula has been around for a bit and does seem to be out for a pity party

claire_bear2007

yep. and historically, at this point in Cesare's life...there are REAL love interests for him to be involved with. Not fictional pet characters of the show's writers.

Ursula is definitely overstaying. Unnecessary and overstaying.

jnnj

It seems the characters Paolo and Giovanni will be back for the beginning of S2 as well. About Ursula, I'm unsure why Neil J. chose to create her. She seemed to service Cesare's angst more than anything else, which may account for the fact that she is not as well defined. That said, I don't mind her really. Not sure why she's there for the beginning of S2 though. But I do agree that there are women from the historical record that can easily be brought in now (i.e. Sancia).

Speaking of Sancia, it should be interesting to see how Neil J has her relationship with Cesare start up. I wonder if it will run the same time as the Lucrezia/Alfonso marriage. Will Neil J. be handling that in S2? I'm not caught up on any of his interviews about future plans. Anyway, the Lucrezia/Alfonso relationship should be interesting. Alfonso cracks me up.

Completely agree!

Btw, claire_bear, I began watching the 1981 BBC version of the Borgias. I'll try catch Pt. 2 this weekend. So far the only portrayal I'm liking is Adriana de Mila.

And on the subject of other versions, will any of you be able to catch Tom Fontana's "Borgia" this weekend? I've read the detailed episode descriptions at the Borgias wiki.

Nothing Else Matters

So I did the survey.

It does seem like Ursula will be back.

I'm missing Cesare/Lucrezia so much. I'm actually kind of excited for the Cesare/Sancia hookup. Hopefully it bounces Ursula right out the picture.

claire_bear2007

hahahahha. There's so much hammy acting in that 1981 Borgias version. Especially from Guilia Farnese. Even Cesare acts over the top sometimes. The actor is only saved by his very nice voice. But other than that...Cesare has zero appeal. LOL. I found Rodrigo gross in that version and out of place. Everyone has a brit accent yet that guy suddenly speaks with an Italian accent. Weird. But to be fair, the actor playing Rodrigo does look like the Real Life Rodrigo. Wait 'til you meet Sancia. No subtlety in her ****tiness. LOL

But I did enjoy the depiction of the King of France and even Micheletto. And this show follows the historical timeline more closely than Neil Jordan's version.

memory 91...yeah, I think it's good if all the C/L shippers will complete that Nielsen's survey so TPTB will see how loved C/L is as OTP. I gave the Cesare/Ursula relationship the lowest rating in the survey. mwahahah.

I think more than anything...what i hate about Ursula is how she contributed to the stagnation of Cesare's character. I liked that her husband finally brought out murderous Cesare...but after that Cesare was stuck just drooling after Ursula. I simply found that so detrimental to Cesare's character development. I almost feel that the writers got busy developing Lucrezia's HBIC personality that they forgot all about Cesare's continuing journey to BAMF. Those few minutes of Cesare getting some action in Ep 9 was too little too late.

Roxy87

Now that you mention it, I see what you mean. Cesare's development did get stalled after his killer side was brought out. His story had just reached a plateau while Luc grew up through her abuse, the relationship with Paulo, and her manipulations with the French king.

Guess I didn't really think about it before because I was enjoying Lucrezia's development so much. Hopefully more attention is paid to Cesare's character.

jnnj

I agree on the Rodrigo actor looking more like the real one, and the historical pacing. On Sancia, ! That means she'll be exactly the way I've thought of her. I've been so sick the last couple of days and out of it, so I haven't had a chance to catch up. But I hope to try again during the course of this week. Looking forward to seeing this version of Micheletto and King of France!

Totally understand what you mean. I'm waiting to see how Neil J. has Cesare evolve, so maybe that's why she didn't bother me so much. But you're right; she really has been an emotional albatross for Cesare, particularly after he began tapping into his darker tendencies. Good point on the timing of it. It certainly didn't help that the character itself wasn't well-defined (at least for me). Still don't know why Neil J. thought it was a good idea to create her or even why she will be on for S2. But hopefully he works more on Cesare this coming season.

This may have been posted elsewhere, but Television Without Pity (TWOP) has the Tubey Awards. The Borgias have been nominated in a couple of categories.

The Borgias is nominated for Best New Series (1-4)
Francois is nominated for Favorite Actor (5-8)
Holliday is nominated for Favorite Actress (9-12)
Lucrezia and Cesare are nominated for Best Romantic Relationship (17-20)
The Borgias are nominated for Best Family Relationship (21-24)

I may have missed some, and the lists of nominees are long in most categories so it's a tough race but cool to see other online communities take note of them all.

TWOP Tubeys Nominees

*crawls off to get some hot soup and more sleep*

timtyra

Guuyyyys please add me?? They're my new obsession, i love them so much its crazy ive been trying to find everywhere novels about the borgias /cesare&lucrezia, its not even funny. <3 I miss them already!

claire_bear2007

She's not well-defined at all, I agree. She's just there for Cesare to react to something. And I hope Neil Jordan doesn't waste any time trying to define her in Season 2. Lord knows there are so many OTHER characters who deserve more screen time and development than Ursula.

been trying to register in that forum but I've never gotten the confirmation from the mods.

Welcome TimTyra !!

Roxy87

Voted! I'm glad CL even got nominated for the romantic relationship category given how controversial that could be.

Here's some CL prettiness



Credit


One of my all time favorite moments with them

timtyra

looove that art

thanks for the welcome claire im claudia!

What awards are those? and where can i watch? lol