CityGal

Thanks so much for the link.

CatFoley16

You're very welcome. A new episode should be up tomorrow.

My Kind Of Crazy

that's a bingo

I just started this like a week ago and I am obsessed. I simply adore everyone on the show, but Josh has to be my favorite.

CatFoley16

Josh is quite the great character. How far along are you into this?

LightYears

Drunk On You

Thanks for posting.

Jasper1975

I love The West Wing. I am currently doing my millionth rewatch LOL. Love all the characters. But I was partial to Josh. And my favorite couple of course was Josh and Donna. The show perfect. Even Season 5-7, I love. It's one of my all time favorites.

CatFoley16

This show can be rewatched millions of times and still always be amazing.
Josh and Donna are one of the best couples ever. I agree that seasons 5 to 7 of this show are still great. It took a bit of time for the writers and everyone to find their footing after season 4 but everything in the show still had a good run.

Jasper1975

Sure Season 5-7 is different from the first four under Sorkin. It was a little more darker. But I enjoyed how Donna found a direction and found her calling. Just wish it wasn't the determent of Josh and Donna in Season 6. But they came back strong, and were better for it.

It's a fabulous show!

CatFoley16

Yeah seasons 5 to 7 got dark for sure. I'm thinking of Leo.
I loved that Donna found her calling in those seasons though. She got major character development! Season 6 writing for her and Josh's relationship irks me in good and bad ways. I What did you think of CJ as Chief of Staff?

Jasper1975

I am revisiting it now. On Season 7. While it did annoy me. I can sorta see it. Donna was able to find herself. And after Gaza, things had to change. Her nearly dying opened a pandora box of feelings for Josh and the bandaid was ripped off. He was seeing he could no long ignore it. He went crazy when he heard of the accident, and she was all he could think of her. So he ran to Germany. And seeing Colin, allowed the jealousy to fly.

So once back at the White House, they both found it hard to get back to normal. Josh wanted to believe they could get back, and not have to deal with what it all meant given that he was sill her boss. Nearly dying opened Donna's eyes. She needed to find herself. Away from Josh. But it was painful.

And because of the way the show was structure. They needed a main character to team with Will on Russell's campaign to show that there was at least a hope and it wasn't all one sided on Josh's side for Santos. They also had to keep CJ and Toby at the White House with the President.

I like to think Josh made some of the decisions he made because he was a mess without Donna, and it got worse and worse until things came to a head with them, and they were able to find each other.

CJ as Chief of Staff was a abrupt change. I can see from the show standpoint. Josh and Will had to go off in their own directions. Toby would never have been able to have that job. She's very talented. But I have issues that she would be the only name Leo had. Given how close he was to Josh, and this was before Josh was itching to leave...

And her promotion also gave a incentive for Josh to leave. It was a interesting time.

CatFoley16

I like your analyses. Gaza definitely opened Josh's eyes to his feelings that he probably hadn't wanted to confront for a while. Everyone else could see it though, I'm reminded of the line Pres. Bartlet says during the peace talks about if there's another place Josh needs to be, they'd understand.

I also think they both knew what they were feeling by the time they got back to the White House (Donna even more so) but they didn't know how they could approach it. Donna had been wanting to expand her role since season 3 (I'm thinking of the episode when she almost gets another job). She was very brave to leave.

I agree with your statement of Josh being a mess without Donna. Leo having his heart attack plus her leaving sent him on a very bad spiral. I've read a fan theory that Josh wasn't a consideration for Chief of Staff because Leo knew or felt Josh needed to find his own version of Jed, like his candidate to make from the ground up and to get to the White House on his own. It makes sense but it's hard to think that Leo would not think of Josh for a promotion too...

I like how Donna's growth showed she could be at Josh's level job wise without it diminishing their connection. Like I think as much as she cared for him, she maybe felt some insecurity since she saw him date Amy and even though it was pre-show canon, watching him with Mandy too. Josh over time grew more to care for Donna than he could admit and without realizing it but he struggles to leave people so he couldn't just dump Amy for Donna, not just for the reasons of their jobs messing it up too.

Jasper1975

Girl Power definitely could be felt once Sorkin left, as all the women characters got advancement. With CJ's promotion, you saw a lot more of Margaret and her personality as the "indispensable" assistant. Donna got tremendous growth. Kate basically was the one person foreign affairs advisor for CJ.

Donna had to move on. Gaza changed things for her. She was itching for more. And she got some in Season 5. But still, she was still confined by her job and her love for Josh whether she wanted to be open about it.

I just quibble how she did it. The White House was in a middle of a major crisis with Bartlett's health lapse in China. And she decides to walk out. I know she had for few weeks wanted Josh to pay attention. I just wished she had waited until things cooled down. But then I do think Josh knew what she wanted to say, and was fearful of what it meant. He might not have thought it was to leave, but it was something major and he was fearful of it.

And her leaving got him to go off and get Santos onto the road for the presidency.

Actually Leo is the one who tells Josh if "there is someplace he rather be", and Josh rushes off...

They all knew. Heck even in the beginning of Amy. She mentioned rumors of something going on with Josh and Donna. I think for a long time it was easy to ignore any feelings he might have had for Donna. Amy was a major relationship for him. But Gaza truly opened the door to his true feelings, and he was scared to death.

He hates change. And ripping off that bandaid of him and Donna would be a big one for him. And then when he was on the road, it was easy to put distance between them because he felt "betrayed" she left him for Russell. And only when she was now on the Santos team, things got more complicated...

I know it was said before on the show Josh would have not be as good as a Chief of Staff to Bartlett. He was better as the man behind the man. But with Santos, he would be a better main man. He was there from the beginning. And with CJ. At the time of the series, it was getting into the lame duck portion of the presidency so while she had some major things on her plate as Chief of Staff. She was better to handle it...

And Josh went off and did his own thing. And Toby went down in flames of his view of the "greater cause".

But Toby is another debate...

CatFoley16

Donna did leave at a rough time but she must have felt enough was enough. I know how she feels a bit considering how I'm feeling toward my own job, but I digress...

Yeah that's right about Leo saying the place for Josh to be line. It's been about a year since I've watched the show so I got foggy hehe.

Josh was better as Santos's COS due to being there from the beginning, I totally agree there.

Toby's role in the last of the series is very debatable. I cringe that the writing made him the leak even though I've ready one argument that tries to justify it (and does to some degree). I think it says a lot though that the actor who portrayed Toby knew it was a bad plot point and didn't see it as true to the character.