[naturellebella]

Originally Posted by brucasalways (View Post) what does lily have?

She had cancer but I don't think she has it now. I think Will was lying so he could spend more time w/ Lily and steal her from Rufus.

[Jerry D]

I thought this was a rather lackluster episode, but we also got to see some relationships put to the test as the pattern of lies and deception that is so endemic to this group of characters continued on its merry way.

I found it amusing that Jenny tried to act all sexy around Nate as art imitated real life (from what we saw in a recent Taylor Momsen interview) as Jenny wore just Nate’s shirt and no pants, but Nate was still all about Serena as he mentioned her constantly and he treated Jenny like a kid, even t the point of rubbing her head. Apparently Nate suffers from selective amnesia, as he seemed to forget that he actually made out with Jenny and they had been a romantic couple for a brief time, and that he had even written her a love letter, but I guess the whole point to this story is that Nate loves Serena and only Serena. In some way, I felt sorry for Jenny, because I do feel she truly loves Nate, but I didn’t like her lying to Nate and planting seeds of doubt in both Nate’s mind and Serena’s mind about their relationship, and in the end, all of her plotting and scheming, egged on by Chuck, who wanted his best friend back, came to naught, as Nate, after finding out that she had never given him Serena’s message and lied right to his face about it, asked her to leave.

I must say that although what Chuck did to Blair was wrong, I wish that Nate wouldn’t be so harshly judgmental towards him, and I wish, for once, that he’d actually be Chuck’s best friend, or a friend to him period. I’ve always felt that Chuck was a much better friend to Nate than Nate was to Chuck, and this episode reinforced that feeling.

I loved seeing Dorota’s concern for Blair as she planned a party to get over Chuck, and she was right when she said that Blair wasn’t done grieving for Chuck yet. I thought it was sad to see Chuck regressing into a life of debauchery because he’s still heartbroken over losing Blair, and we saw that despite his trying to show the world that he’s over Blair, he isn’t, and I hated seeing the heartbreak was so evident in his eyes when he saw Blair with Cameron, (who I wasn’t impressed with) and when he talked to Blair. I was so saddened that Blair acknowledged that they loved each other but that he had broken her heart, and that she was moving on from that heartbreak and from him, and that, in turn, broke my heart, because like Chuck said, no one could touch what they had together. Watching the flashback scene with them was very bittersweet for me, and now more than ever, I feel that Chuck and Blair are meant for each other, and I’ll never love a couple on this show as much as I love them.

I was so disappointed that Dan didn’t get into the Tisch writing program, and that Vanessa did get into the program because she had submitted a story without his knowledge, but Dan, being the great guy that he is, took it all in stride, and I honestly don’t think he told Willa that Vanessa had based her story off of one of his stories with any malicious intent, and he just wanted what was best for Vanessa. Dan is just such a noble guy, and this episode showed me again why he’s one of my favorite characters. We found out that Vanessa had submitted an original story after all, but Willa, infatuated with Dan and jealous of Vanessa, sabotaged Vanessa’s chances of getting into the Tisch program, and she caused a rift between Dan and Vanessa, and we’ll have to wait and see if their relationship can survive. I did find it hilarious when Willa saw Jenny with Dan and asked him “who’s that ****?” though!

I was amused when Blair used Dan to find a way to get around Chuck’s “dating fatwa” and she refused to actually listen to him as she dictated her plans to him.

Obviously, one of the big themes of this episode was the revelation that Lily is ill, and that and that her ex-husband William Van Der Woodsen had been treating her, and Serena finally got to reunite with her father. William and Rufus’ meeting was interesting as they both treated each other with contempt, suggesting an old and bitter rivalry between them. I felt bad that Lily is sick, but I thought she was totally wrong to hide the truth from Rufus, and I don’t think that Rufus should have instantly forgiven her. William certainly was a smooth talker as he charmed Serena as he had once charmed Lily, but we got to see in the end that he’s a true Van Der Woodsen after all, as he apparently has a hidden, and possibly illegal, agenda in mind and that he’s withholding information from Lily and Serena and that he’s possibly making Lily sick to keep himself in her life. The plot thickens!

Overall, I saw this as a filler episode to kick off the rest of the season, and I was saddened by the preview where Serena is going to take sides against Rufus as her father further insinuates himself into their lives.

[Artemis]

"I still don’t know what I want from you."

[serendipity or fate]

Nate/Serena, Round 1. Nate's desire to immediately meet Serena as soon as he got her text really shows she and their relationship are the absolute priority. Having no solution on the first round of arguing reminds me of their first round in 3.15 -- he didn't explain himself clearly and she was too upset to hear more. He's so dazed and sad after that, it struck me how happy he is that she calls while he's at the party, clearly needing him. Once again, he shows how much of a priority she is; even in the midst of Jenny's interruption, he's in the moment with Serena. It isn't until after Serena refuses to hear his explanation about Jenny staying over the night before, that Nate wants to go home and get really drunk. The boy is so easily depressed when Serena is reactive (I'm thinking of 3.11, 3.13). GG also had some great zingers tonight, "Jenny's oath is less Hippocratic and more hypocrite!"

Nate/Serena, Round 2. The crap coming out of Jenny's mouth about treating him better than Serena? No words. But Nate stops Jenny kissing him BEFORE he even knew Serena was in the room. Good for him! GG's comment about the sound of a relationship flatlining seemed to point to Nate/Serena in that moment, but it wasn't about them. The other relationships in that room flatlined, however. After that, I thought I'd be more annoyed Jenny when added her 2c. But, she easily fades into the background. I do like how confident Nate and Serena are about themselves together. They have a great fearlessness yet a great vulnerability to each other. So I like her snark about him knowing how bad it looks. I also like his assurance nothing happened or would happen with Jenny, but he also wanted to know why she'd come -- he still wants to hear what she has to say.

Her snappy reply to Jenny's interruption, "I'm talking to Nate, Jenny!", is fantastic because Jenny is made to realize that whatever she says is irrelevant. What Nate does is clarify what matters to him -- he wonders why Serena isn't trusting him anymore. He just feels shut out because all he knows until then is that she turned to Carter about her Dad. Translation: he wants to feel closer to her and she's not letting him in. You know, it's exciting that Nate is dealing with the lingering emotional fallout caused by William's departure at the same time William returns. This William arc could be really valuable to Nate/Serena's relationship in the long run if the writers seize the moment here.

Jenny exposed. FINALLY! Serena tells him about the message she left for him with Jenny. Nate's like, "Say what?" Jenny's like, "Nuh-uh." Serena's like, "Uh-huh". Seriously, though, it's striking that Jenny lies loudly while Serena reassures softly. This is a great parallel in tone for me. It's then Nate seems to decipher everything Jenny's been doing. For anyone still unsure about Nate completely believing Serena -- he completely believed her. To me, Nate seems to go into another zone when he realizes Serena had indeed reached out to him and her efforts were intercepted. If he didn't believe her, what happened next would not have happened.

And what happens next is another good parallel with his "Just get out! . . . Seriously, Jenny, just please leave!" He wasn't cruel; he didn't need to be. He'd clearly had enough. His eviction of Jenny reminds me of Serena's ejection of Carter from the limo, . She wasn't cruel either, but she'd had enough. So Carter and Jenny created situations where Nate and Serena could address things they may have been unable to with the current story arcs in play. Because they both had to process this trust issue, Nate got the Carter test (3.18/3.19) and Serena got the Jenny test (3.17/3.19). Initially, I wanted Nate/Serena to give Jenny a verbal smackdown. But, I like what we got much better. Yelling at her would mean expending energy on her as if she mattered. Instead, Nate and Serena seem to give Jenny something even better -- their APATHY.

Nate/Serena regrouping. Serena's reassurance that she trusts Nate and her promise not to take him for granted is so sweet. And Nate just being there for her and listening is really all he wants to do. They know they love each other and now they're resuming a substantive way of showing how much they love each other. I'm very content. As I said, the complaint of non-fans that "all NS do is fight and have sex" might have had merit if they were fighting about nothing, the fights went unresolved, there was increasing resentment, and they were staying together for the sex. However, that doesn't accurately describe the Nate/Serena I see. Their misunderstandings are about issues important to them (their pace, their past, infidelity, trust), they seek out reconciliation, they hear each other's points of view, and they find a resolution. Progress is always made and their love for each other is always shown.

I continue to enjoy the depth and maturity the EPs/writers are trying to give Nate and Serena. And as long as they still enjoy writing for them, I'm still along for the ride.

[Ali]

I watched the pilot the other day and it's sad how awful Jenny has become.

Dan/Blair: The scene was great. As always, they have great chemistry. They are just so natural together and their banter is my favorite part. Most of my favorite couples have that banter thing going on, so I'll continue to root for these two to get together because just as I saw potential in Pacey/Joey, Cappy/Casey, Seth/Summer and Damon/Elena... I see it in them as well. Banter = awesomeness <3

I'm surprised we got a scene tonight. DB interaction is always gold.

I'm proud of Blair for maturing at the end there and realizing she needed to move past the games in order to truly move on from Chuck, and that erasing him wouldn't help anything. I felt sorry for him when it dawned on him how truly over it was between them.

I loved that scene. Ed was great with Chuck's realization that it's over.

[i never learn]

Originally Posted by Brucas_Is_Love (View Post) I continue to enjoy the depth and maturity the EPs/writers are trying to give Nate and Serena.

depth and maturity? you aren't serious, are you? if i remember correctly, wasn't it nate who told jenny he wasn't going to call serena first? LOL! i don't think i'd even categorize that line at the eighth grade level. and really, if all it takes is jenny hiding the fact that serena told her where she was going from nate and jenny flashing nate's shirt in serena's face to create such doubt in both ns's minds, you have to wonder the amount of distrust that really existed between ns in the first place. i mean, how could two rather small and insignificant things create such a world of anarchy? oh, and i'm pretty sure the my mom's got cancer card will only glue ns together for so long. i mean, if ns are going to be together, why can't they just be together? seems like they always need some monumental discord to drive them apart just so they can do it once in a while. that does not a ship make imo.

[afeverpitch]

But the point is that Nate did end up going to see Serena first. He said something out of spite and anger, but he actually tried to make it work in the end and was patient with her.

Plus, I'm pretty sure that finding out your boyfriend spent the night with your step-sister and she is now carrying around his shirt would put doubts in anyone's mind.

[miuhleex3]

grrrr.. im reading this thread and getting exited,
it airs tonight in australia.. and i can hardly wait!

[BunnySlippers232]

Sadly, DV are over for me. Especially after this episode.

They were not handled very well this season. They argued every episode that they were together And then this whole Tisch thing was just so...annoying. DV was a bad idea in hindsight. I think they have a lot of issues they need to work out. And it's mind-grating to see it play out on TV.

[makry]

Originally Posted by metal heart (View Post) depth and maturity? you aren't serious, are you? if i remember correctly, wasn't it nate who told jenny he wasn't going to call serena first? LOL! i don't think i'd even categorize that line at the eighth grade level. and really, if all it takes is jenny hiding the fact that serena told her where she was going from nate and jenny flashing nate's shirt in serena's face to create such doubt in both ns's minds, you have to wonder the amount of distrust that really existed between ns in the first place. i mean, how could two rather small and insignificant things create such a world of anarchy? oh, and i'm pretty sure the my mom's got cancer card will only glue ns together for so long. i mean, if ns are going to be together, why can't they just be together? seems like they always need some monumental discord to drive them apart just so they can do it once in a while. that does not a ship make imo.

Ohh I think she is and I agree with that statement, why some people can´t accept that jenny was awful in that storyline, for whatever purpose the writters decided to take that route with her, she sucked big time

and I agree Tati, I can´t blame Nate or Serena for second guessing, I applaud to Jenny for actually being good at something scheming and playing the victim card, I mean she even denied to serena that the shirt was Nate's and then followed with the nothing happened you believe me right

And you also have to take into account that Serena is also dealing with family matters, so her mind is all over the place, what mattered to me at the end is that NS were able to talk about it and solve it as a couple

and NS couple arc at this point they are the best established couple on the show (since CB just broke up), yes they have problems (some of their own and some created by other people) but so far they have solved each and one of them, so yeah I don't get why they are doomed, because they have arguments , I thought normal couples had arguments too , anyway I love how the writers are handling them, and I can´t wait for what is in store for them.

[i never learn]

Originally Posted by makry (View Post) Ohh I think she is and I agree with that statement, why some people can´t accept that jenny was awful in that storyline, for whatever purpose the writters decided to take that route with her, she sucked big time

uh, i never said whether or not i accepted jenny's part in anything, i was just stating it's funny how it takes so little on the writers part to create such anarchy within the ns relationship. so maybe the question shouldn't be if jenny is the problem or not, but why can't ns take responsibility for their own lack of trust in each other? hum.

[makry]

Originally Posted by metal heart (View Post) uh, i never said whether or not i accepted jenny's part in anything, i was just stating it's funny how it takes so little on the writers part to create such anarchy within the ns relationship. so maybe the question shouldn't be if jenny is the problem or not, but why can't ns take responsibility for their own lack of trust between the two of them in their own relationship? hum.

Mm but they never blamed Jenny, actually they never took her into consideration, they know they have trust issues they need to address, that was the sole purpose of their last conversation.

And the Jenny sucking part wasn´t directed at you, sorry I should add a period or something I just wanted to post about me agreeing with the statement about being happy about the writers decisions about NS.

[i never learn]

i'm still more or less responding to your statement at people accepting jenny's awfulness regardless if it's directed at me or not. i mean, i don't see why nate and serena aren't being held as equally accountable for allowing someone to manipulate their relationship. like, i get it's so much easier for people to place the blame at one person's doorstep, but in all honestly, if the ns relationship lacks the sort of substance it takes for a simple sense of trust to exist, jenny or no jenny, they are doomed.

[makry]

Originally Posted by metal heart (View Post) i'm still more or less responding to your statement at people accepting jenny's awfulness regardless if it's directed at me or not. i mean, i don't see why nate and serena aren't being held as equally accountable for allowing someone to manipulate their relationship. like, i get it's so much easier for people to place the blame at one person's doorstep, but in all honestly, if the ns relationship lacks the sort of substance it takes for a simple sense of trust to exist, jenny or no jenny, they are doomed.

Ohh sometimes I wanted to slap both of them so they could Snap out of it and realize they were being played.

And I agree Jenny will not be responsible if NS do breakup like I posted before Jenny is their least of their problems, and that's why I replied by saying their last convo was about them solving their issues.

But to be honest Jenny was the one that looked awful in all of this, I was when she even had the nerve to lie on serena's face and when she say the line about nate thinking that Serena was not good for him, I´m sorry but she just sucked this episode for me, I didn't saw a glimpse of something good in her, and I get that her fans are annoyed I know I'd, but for whatever reason the writers took her into that route and honestly at this point I don't even hate her, she went straight to my ignore list (unless she messes with my faves again) I can't take her seriously anymore, but hey that's just me

[babystarlet]

I like how Nate & Serena resolved their trust issues, completely ignoring the very shockingly outright lying little J there -- which, IMO, was a great way of writing by the writers on how she's just so insignificant to NS. On a random note, I don't get the whole "You two deserve each other." part cause it's just so ironic, no one deserves the Jenny she herself turned into right now. I could forgive her due to the pity I had when seeing how Nate obviously can't give two hoots about her and Serena's awesome direct words that she's not involved in their relationship and convo. However, her denying lies and I'm-still-doing-the-right-thing stance even while leaving is just too annoying for pity to override.


^^ Nate's face says it all.

The part where Serena admitted the Nate about her mother and how she really doesn't know what to do, her completely telling him everything, I love the way you can hear her voice break. Great job, Blake! That scene was beautiful and heartbreaking, I teared!

CB were amazing, I love how the screen is zoomed so close to their faces that all you can see are their eyes that showed complete amazing in-character. Leighton and Ed did an AMAZING job for this. I like how Blair is maturing as a character, and the flashback just killed me (and I'm not even a hardcore CB fan, so this must mean something!). I definitely feel for them!

I actually still like DV. But I do love DB friendship as well. Hope they would be able to work their issues out because now that NS and CB has, DV can be developed as couple.

Originally Posted by Brucas_Is_Love (View Post) Nate/Serena, Round 1. Nate's desire to immediately meet Serena as soon as he got her text really shows she and their relationship are the absolute priority. Having no solution on the first round of arguing reminds me of their first round in 3.15 -- he didn't explain himself clearly and she was too upset to hear more. He's so dazed and sad after that, it struck me how happy he is that she calls while he's at the party, clearly needing him. Once again, he shows how much of a priority she is; even in the midst of Jenny's interruption, he's in the moment with Serena. It isn't until after Serena refuses to hear his explanation about Jenny staying over the night before, that Nate wants to go home and get really drunk. The boy is so easily depressed when Serena is reactive (I'm thinking of 3.11, 3.13). GG also had some great zingers tonight, "Jenny's oath is less Hippocratic and more hypocrite!" Nate/Serena, Round 2. The crap coming out of Jenny's mouth about treating him better than Serena? No words. But Nate stops Jenny kissing him BEFORE he even knew Serena was in the room. Good for him! GG's comment about the sound of a relationship flatlining seemed to point to Nate/Serena in that moment, but it wasn't about them. The other relationships in that room flatlined, however. After that, I thought I'd be more annoyed Jenny when added her 2c. But, she easily fades into the background. I do like how confident Nate and Serena are about themselves together. They have a great fearlessness yet a great vulnerability to each other. So I like her snark about him knowing how bad it looks. I also like his assurance nothing happened or would happen with Jenny, but he also wanted to know why she'd come -- he still wants to hear what she has to say. Her snappy reply to Jenny's interruption, "I'm talking to Nate, Jenny!", is fantastic because Jenny is made to realize that whatever she says is irrelevant. What Nate does is clarify what matters to him -- he wonders why Serena isn't trusting him anymore. He just feels shut out because all he knows until then is that she turned to Carter about her Dad. Translation: he wants to feel closer to her and she's not letting him in. You know, it's exciting that Nate is dealing with the lingering emotional fallout caused by William's departure at the same time William returns. This William arc could be really valuable to Nate/Serena's relationship in the long run if the writers seize the moment here. Jenny exposed. FINALLY! Serena tells him about the message she left for him with Jenny. Nate's like, "Say what?" Jenny's like, "Nuh-uh." Serena's like, "Uh-huh". Seriously, though, it's striking that Jenny lies loudly while Serena reassures softly. This is a great parallel in tone for me. It's then Nate seems to decipher everything Jenny's been doing. For anyone still unsure about Nate completely believing Serena -- he completely believed her. To me, Nate seems to go into another zone when he realizes Serena had indeed reached out to him and her efforts were intercepted. If he didn't believe her, what happened next would not have happened. And what happens next is another good parallel with his "Just get out! . . . Seriously, Jenny, just please leave!" He wasn't cruel; he didn't need to be. He'd clearly had enough. His eviction of Jenny reminds me of Serena's ejection of Carter from the limo, . She wasn't cruel either, but she'd had enough. So Carter and Jenny created situations where Nate and Serena could address things they may have been unable to with the current story arcs in play. Because they both had to process this trust issue, Nate got the Carter test (3.18/3.19) and Serena got the Jenny test (3.17/3.19). Initially, I wanted Nate/Serena to give Jenny a verbal smackdown. But, I like what we got much better. Yelling at her would mean expending energy on her as if she mattered. Instead, Nate and Serena seem to give Jenny something even better -- their APATHY. Nate/Serena regrouping. Serena's reassurance that she trusts Nate and her promise not to take him for granted is so sweet. And Nate just being there for her and listening is really all he wants to do. They know they love each other and now they're resuming a substantive way of showing how much they love each other. I'm very content. As I said, the complaint of non-fans that "all NS do is fight and have sex" might have had merit if they were fighting about nothing, the fights went unresolved, there was increasing resentment, and they were staying together for the sex. However, that doesn't accurately describe the Nate/Serena I see. Their misunderstandings are about issues important to them (their pace, their past, infidelity, trust), they seek out reconciliation, they hear each other's points of view, and they find a resolution. Progress is always made and their love for each other is always shown. I continue to enjoy the depth and maturity the EPs/writers are trying to give Nate and Serena. And as long as they still enjoy writing for them, I'm still along for the ride.

WORD to this, entirely. You speak my mind, especially about the part where Serena reassures softly in contrast to Jenny's loud shouting.