~Maz~

So, since it's summer, i thought we could have some discussion/debate going here. I took this idea from Janine's Haley debate on the OTH board.

The question is simple, was Haley right in continuing to tutor Nathan after Lucas asked her not to, and then starting to date him, given all the history between Lucas and Nathan?

I know alot of posters are N/H fans, but this isn't about NH, it's about loyalty.

My view is simple. She wasn't right in tutoring Nathan. Lucas, her best friend for years, was being hassled by this guy, and he was doing horrible things, also even at his best Nathan was still Lucas's half brother, thus making him a sore subject for Lucas. Despite this Haley went ahead and tutored Nathan and later fell for him, with little regard for Lucas's feelings. I know she fell for Nathan, and couldn't help it later, but initially, before she even knew Nathan, or when she just started to like him a little, she should have backed off.

So, opinions please? I'd really like some nice discussion between all us posters.

strawberrylicious

I don't think it was the right decision but I fully understand why she made it and I think if I had been in the same position, I would have made the same choice. If nothing else, it must have been curiosity - why is this guy so intent on getting tutoring from me? Plus, Haley is this genuinely sweet and giving person.. she would have see Nathan as a guy that needed help with his schoolwork to hold on to his love - basketball.

balle

Although I'm a NH shipper, I do believe that she wasn't totally right in tutoring Nathan because of Lucas's feelings towards Nathan at the beginning. However, she did start tutoring Nathan for Lucas - for the hazing and bullying to stop. Her plan succeeded - Lucas was left alone after a while.

Haley isn't one to just stop tutoring a student if someone tells her to. She feels satisfied when her student does well, and she also wanted Nathan to succeed. Just because Lucas doesn't like her to tutor Nathan, it doesn't mean that she has to give up something she loves doing just to make him feel better.

In regards to her falling for Nathan, she couldn't help it and neither could he. You can't help who you fall in love with. They got to know each other and enjoy each other's company. Haley didn't get together with Nathan to spite Lucas - she isn't one to do that to her best friend. She's a sweet and genuine girl.

I believe Lucas should be more understanding, even though he has a right to be mad. However, there is an extent to how mad he should be. If he sees his best friend happy, he should support her. She supported him with basketball and everything with Dan, now he can support her. After all, what are best friends for? It's all about sacrifices. They both should work together to make the other comfortable.

~Maz~

Well, i can understand how Haley felt too. It would be a difficult choice. But as for Lucas being more understanding, i think he was actually too understanding. Haley didn't do it to hurt him, but it would hurt him and i think it would have been justified if he had been a bit more mad about it. Like he was initially mad when he found out she had been tutoring him behind his back, and took a little while to get used to it, but after that he was amazingly understanding, especially about the dating.

I still love Haley, but i still think though it's understandable to not want to abandon Nathan after starting to tutor him, it was also a little reckless of Lucas's feelings. She didn't seem to broken up about hurting him. She was at first when she had to decide whether she was actually gonna start, but after that, like after the tutoring started, she didn't have a problem with it.

I actually would have liked it if they had focused on Haley's struggle to choose between loyalty to friendship, and wanting to help Nathan and then falling for him. I would have understood her more. Plus it would have given us more Haley screen time. I'm kinda sick of all the boring triangles on shows today and the LHN triangle at the start of the season would have been different because it wouldnt be a romantic triangle so much as a friendship(LH)/family(LN)/relationship(NH) one and it would have been interesting to watch.

balle

Yes, I agree with you. It would have been interesting to see Haley seriously pondering about the pros and cons of tutoring Nathan. They should've elaborated on that. Maybe Haley didn't think of it to be anything or something. I don't know, but you're right on. Haley's inner turmoil would've been interesting to see.

I can't complain about the outcome though, as a big Nathan and Haley fan. I'm thoroughly satisfied.

luvsmusic

Even though I love Naley I have to say that Haley shouldn't have tutored Nathan. She was betraying Lucas, her best friend in the world, by sneaking behind his back to tutor him. It wouldn't have been so bad if she had told Lucas about it even though he would be furious. But really, wouldn't you rather hear it from your best friend than from finding her hat in the car the guy you despise is driving.

..:*babi_gurl311*:..

I'm a totally nut case for Naley, and I have to say... Haley started to tutor Nathan for the all right reasons, because of the bullying and she cared for Luke too much to see him get hurt over and over again. If Nathan was anybody else she would have helped him, but he turned out to be Luke's enemy. Although Luke did ask Haley to stop tutoring Nathan... and she did it anyways, I think that she has her own mind and if she wanted to tutor or date him that's her business.

Haley did ask Luke to chose between her and his ex-girlfriends... and I understand its under a totally different circumstances, but still... I would hate having to chose between two of my best friends. Someone always end up getting hurt, and Haley's a big girl she can take care of herself.

Overall, Nathan is a danger to Haley and Lucas' friendship, but if Luke and Haley's friendship was strong enough and had faith and trust Nathan couldn't separate them even if he tried his very best!

heart packed in ice

Haley tutoring Nathan, was IMO, not wrong, Haley did it for the right reasons, it may not have started out that way from Nathan's side but that is what it turned into. Lucas said he didn't want Haley to tutor Nathan but her continuing doing that, shows that Haley is very capable of making her own choices. It may have been a behind Lucas' back but I don't see it that way. Haley liked Nathan, she saw something in him and brought out the good person. If she hadn't tutored Nathan, him and Lucas would probably never have been as close as they were in the season finale.

team mom

I actually don't think what Haley did was wrong at all. Yes, Lucas was getting trouble from Nathan but Haley can make her own decisions. Besides, she is a tutor. Dating him wasn't wrong either because she did tell Lucas she was having feelings for Nathan and Lucas didn't say she couldn't. Besides, like I said before Haley is her own person, she can make her own decisions. Yes, some decisions aren't smart but she can do what she wants. Yes, Luke is her best friend but he also isn't her ruler.

heart packed in ice

ITA! I don't see what this thing has to do with Haley sneaking behind Lucas' back because she didn't. She told him she had feelings for Nathan and she said she would tutor him, and like pointed out, Haley is a tutor and she has a right to help whoever she wants to. She brought out the good person in Nathan, and like I said before, Lucas and Nathan may not have been as close as they were in the finale if Haley hadn't tutored Nathan in the first place.

~Maz~

Hmm, i kinda disagree. I know Haley has a right to make her own choices as an individual, and she did make them, but if everyone in this world made decisions just based on what they wanted the world would be a pretty selfish place.

I think the hiding it from Lucas initially was obviously wrong, just because it was lying, but that's not what really bothered me. It was continuing to tutor Nathan despite Lucas not being happy about it. I mean specifically episode five, Where I End And You Begin, when Lucas says "You can stop tutoring Nathan now".

Its like the choice between your best friend who you've known forever (and i think that counts for alot) and a guy who is a virtual stranger, but you see something in. At that point in think the choice should have been Lucas.

Ofcourse its all in the name of drama, and Lucas did get used to it afterwards.

Dating Nathan, the way they showed it, wasn't really wrong because like you guys said Haley did confess her growing feelings for Nathan to Lucas before she started the relationship, and Lucas did say he understood.

heart packed in ice

I didn't really think it was like choosing between Lucas and Nathan. Lucas did get used to the idea of Haley tutoring Nathan but I think Lucas may have done the same thing if the roles were reversed. IMO, Haley didn't sneak behind Lucas' back. Lucas may have felt mad because Haley continued tutoring Nathan but it was a big part of the fact that he didn't like Nathan and when Haley said she started having feelings for Nathan, he didn't want her to get hurt. I still think it was Haley's decision to make and I'm glad she did it because that made Nathan and Lucas grow closer, which made me really happy!

~Maz~

I don't know, on the show it seemed so simple, Lucas just used to Haley and Nathan pretty easily, but in real life, i dont think its that easily.

Its not like Nathan was just Lucas's half brother, he also did some really crapy things to Lucas and pretty much made his life miserable for the first 5 weeks. Im just saying, if someone did to me what Nathan did to Luke, i would be pretty pissed if my best friend started hanging out with them.

I know all the NH fans are ofcourse happy that Haley did what she did because it resulted in NH together. But im just talking about the circumstances in which it happened, and whether you would feel it was ok if you were in Lucas's position, or what you would do in Haley's position.

keep the starlight

I am a NH fan, but I understand what you're saying Maz.

Nathan did do some pretty horrible things to Lucas in the beginning, and I would have thought Haley was wrong for tutoring Nathan if she hadn't done it to help Lucas. She made it clear to Nathan that if she tutored him he was to leave Lucas alone. So I think while it probably back-fired on her because she kept it a secret from Lucas, she still had good intentions. JMO.

~Maz~

Yeah, she did have good intentions initially, and i think she definately started tutoring Nathan for all the right reasons. She is a good person and couldnt stand to see her best friend hurting.

Im only talking after Lucas found out and asked her to stop, should she have stopped then? If she was my best friend, i would have been hurt if she carried on tutoring Nathan even tho i asked her not to. Its not really an unreasonable request.

But ofcourse it wasn't like the crime of the century and Haley is allowed to make her own judgement decisions. And Lucas didn't be upset with her for very long so it was ok.