ale-la-pazza1

I don't see this as a catch: Jack can resolve his daddy issues...but he has a son.
Having a son is not a catch,at least not the way I see it. The others can totally be catches but this I can't see how it is one.
Having a son is a way to get past Jack's daddy issues,not a catch from resolving them.

~Amarula~

i think Jack's catch is that he still needs to fix people.
and now that he has a son he has to fix himself in order to not become his father

Air

I agree, Ada. Especially after Locke told Sayid what if he could have anything he wanted in the whole world.
Except I don't think the Jack one quite works. I don't see his having a son as supposing to be his bargain. I think it's more like:

Jack gets to be a father....but he messed it up first and is divorced.

I entirely agree with the rest though. And I also thought Dogen's speech was really revealing. Jacob drove bargains too. So that's quite interesting. Something to ponder over for a while....

chemistry86

Well we didnt learn all there is to know about them. Besides, in the sideways the mother is someone different. He has a son with a different woman and there might not any romantic Jate in the sideways.

For the losties, connecting to each OTHER will always happen, but the way in which they connect might be different in each reality. Some things are probably circumstantial; meaning they happened only in a specific localized scenario.
I think Dogen got duped. Jacob bargained with him too. It seems as if Jacob has his own agenda too. I am not really siding with Jacob right now. I am team Flocke because of a gut feeling.

ale-la-pazza1

Air

I can't tell yet. I still want to be team Jacob but it's getting harder and harder. But I know I'm definitely not team Flocke. They both manipulate and bargain and have their own agendas it seems. Maybe in the end it'll come down to the losties choosing the sideways, or Flocke's offer or choosing to stay as is, with all of the past and the baggage etc. My gut feeling is I would want the losties to choose the latter and not the sideways. To choose the pain and the possible failure and realize there is good and growth that has come out of all of it. Of course, Jack is the one who wanted to reset it all and yet he seems to be Jacob's ultimate candidate. So many this is all way off base because then I can't reconcile that in my brain.

chemistry86

I don't really know if I like the picture being painted this season, lol. It almost erases the concept that the losties were fated to land on the island and makes them pawns in Jacob/MIB's game. I think the big picture right now is being centered around 'free will' because it is starting appear as if the losties were never even fated to come to the island in the first place. That they were all duped by Jacob and have to prevent being duped from MIB too.

ale-la-pazza1

For some reason I can't trust completely neither Jacob nor Flocke.
I kinda think they're both bad in some ways.

Wingster

no we didn't learn all but still...it's more the relationship Jack had with his son (that was being repaired at the end) then having one..
there may not be Jate in the sideways but seeing as Jack doesn't know her how can that be bad for him?

Aylo

I agree. I don't know which one to trust. I want to trust Jacob, but Dogen's speech made me rethink that big time.

ale-la-pazza1

I'm more leaned to think there's not even a good or a bad side.
They're just equally bad.

chemistry86

I don't think you understand what I am saying. I am saying the characters in the sideways are as equally valid as the characters on the island. They are the same person but with different outcomes. Jack in the sideways has no idea about Kate but the one on the island does. That's why I said it was a Catch-22. But it might even be discovered that this isn't his catch, because there is more to Jack's story than what we see. In the sideways he isn't as driven to fix things as he is on the island, but there is always a catch (as I am sure it wont be, cause she was not really in his episode), so he would have to sacrifice something to have the life he does in the sideways.

I think whatever is meant to happen will always be, but whatever happened as a consequence of the island will not happen on the other timeline. For example, Locke walking, Kate seeking freedom, we just don't know what it is for Jack yet, lol.

Wingster

hmm..i don't know

maybe Jack is offered the sideways world as it's better for him but he chooses not to be there and scarifices it to be the hero

chemistry86

The hero of what? I don't believe either side is good or bad, lol. Everyone has their own agenda.

I am not even very interested in Jack though, so I am more interested in seeing Sawyer and Ben's episodes. Thank god they are the ones coming up next.

Air

Ada, I agree it's looking like they are pawns to Jacob/MIB. Then where does fate and free will even play in if they are all manipulated?

btw, just watched 3x05 where Eko is killed by Smokey. And he says "you're next" - closeup on Sayid and Locke. I don't know if that was intentional back then, but pretty cool considering the current circumstances.