Lost - The Fords [S&J] #58: Sawyer grew into the man that she always knew was inside him. ~ Lost Magazine. Wordaap! - Page 5

tvlover88 · 03-11-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Addison Montgomery (View Post)

This is so true!

He found his way with Juliet. <3

He really did

I really think he changed because he wanted to be a better man. In his eyes he wanted to be a man who was worthy of her.

Addison Montgomery · 03-11-2010, 04:49 PM

I totally agree with you. He wanted to be a better man and it happened. <3

bayloriffic · 03-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Yeah I agree. It was more about Juliet's inscurities than anything else. I always enjoy reading your thoughts. You have lots of great insight

Haha...thanks. Sometimes I feel like I'm just rambling and sound slightly insane. (Not that that's going to stop me from rambling some more right now...)

One of the reasons I like Sawyer/Juliet is that I think that, unlike Sawyer/Kate, it allowed Sawyer to become a better person. It always felt to me like S/K was kind of regressive in some ways; that Sawyer could never really evolve as a person when he was with Kate because she encouraged the more troubling/negative aspects of his character. Any time he tried to evolve--to be a "good" boyfriend to her--she rejected him. (and, like I said, I'm not anti-S/K; it's just a different kind of relationship portrayal). Sawyer's progression to leader was only possible once he broke from the people who saw him as inherently bad/criminal (ie. most of the Oceanic survivors, but particularly Kate and Jack because of the triangle dynamics).

With Juliet, though, I felt like it was the opposite. She encouraged him to be a good person, and didn't assume he was bad just because he had done some terrible things (much in the same way that she had done some terrible things even though she wasn't a bad person). Rather than hold him back--by constantly reaffirming his own insecurities that he didn't deserve someone who cared about him or loved him--she supported him and allowed him to see that he had something positive to offer and that he was capable of being a better man. (and, oh my goodness, this sounds kind of cheesy and like Sawyer-therapy, but whatever

)

tvlover88 · 03-11-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

One of the reasons I like Sawyer/Juliet is that I think that, unlike Sawyer/Kate, it allowed Sawyer to become a better person. It always felt to me like S/K was kind of regressive in some ways; that Sawyer could never really evolve as a person when he was with Kate because she encouraged the more troubling/negative aspects of his character. Any time he tried to evolve--to be a "good" boyfriend to her--she rejected him. (and, like I said, I'm not anti-S/K; it's just a different kind of relationship portrayal). Sawyer's progression to leader was only possible once he broke from the people who saw him as inherently bad/criminal (ie. most of the Oceanic survivors, but particularly Kate and Jack because of the triangle dynamics).

With Juliet, though, I felt like it was the opposite. She encouraged him to be a good person, and didn't assume he was bad just because he had done some terrible things (much in the same way that she had done some terrible things even though she wasn't a bad person). Rather than hold him back--by constantly reaffirming his own insecurities that he didn't deserve someone who cared about him or loved him--she supported him and allowed him to see that he had something positive to offer and that he was capable of being a better man. (and, oh my goodness, this sounds kind of cheesy and like Sawyer-therapy, but whatever )

I complety agree. I think to become the person he is today he needed to be around people who did not see him as a conman and Juliet was a huge part of that. I also think it helped that everyone that stayed in the DI Juliet,Milies,Jin have all done bad things but are not bad people so they could relate.

AdiG9 · 03-11-2010, 06:41 PM

Love the new title!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayloriffic (View Post)

Haha...thanks. Sometimes I feel like I'm just rambling and sound slightly insane. (Not that that's going to stop me from rambling some more right now...)

One of the reasons I like Sawyer/Juliet is that I think that, unlike Sawyer/Kate, it allowed Sawyer to become a better person. It always felt to me like S/K was kind of regressive in some ways; that Sawyer could never really evolve as a person when he was with Kate because she encouraged the more troubling/negative aspects of his character. Any time he tried to evolve--to be a "good" boyfriend to her--she rejected him. (and, like I said, I'm not anti-S/K; it's just a different kind of relationship portrayal). Sawyer's progression to leader was only possible once he broke from the people who saw him as inherently bad/criminal (ie. most of the Oceanic survivors, but particularly Kate and Jack because of the triangle dynamics).

With Juliet, though, I felt like it was the opposite. She encouraged him to be a good person, and didn't assume he was bad just because he had done some terrible things (much in the same way that she had done some terrible things even though she wasn't a bad person). Rather than hold him back--by constantly reaffirming his own insecurities that he didn't deserve someone who cared about him or loved him--she supported him and allowed him to see that he had something positive to offer and that he was capable of being a better man. (and, oh my goodness, this sounds kind of cheesy and like Sawyer-therapy, but whatever

)

I completely agree! Sawyer and Kate bonded over their shared criminal/outcast pasts. They understood what each other had been through, so it made sense they became close. But I think the problem with that if they were together, they would have stayed that way. It was the whole a "tiger don't change his stripes" thing. They could be outcasts together and didn't force each other to grow.

Whereas Juliet helped Sawyer become a better person. I don't think she made him change who he was or anything like that, but helped him get in touch with the good person he actually was inside. Same thing with Jack and Kate. And on a show where one of the main themes is redemption, it seems clear that Juliet and Jack are the better partners for Sawyer and Kate.

TummyKisses · 03-11-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

THAT SAID, I do think Sawyer felt conflicted during that scene and that he had some unresolved feelings for Kate that surfaced there. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I see the Sawyer/Kate relationship as like the first love relationship that everyone has at some point. Like it was so intense and so unlike anything he’d ever experienced before that there will always be feelings there, even if he’s moved on and fallen in love with someone else (Juliet). But that doesn’t mean that he should go back to that first relationship (with Kate) or break off the current one (with Juliet), just that there will always be feelings there because it really did affect him and how he related to people.

I agree with you so much about this. It's completely believable that old feelings and memories associated with Kate would come flooding back to Sawyer. He hadn't seen in her in 3 years, and the last time he did see her, she was the woman that he loved. It's just that, none of that means that he'd been longing for her during all the time he spent with Juliet, or that Juliet didn't have all of his heart. I think the mistake, the thing that gets so many shippers worked up in both negative and positive ways, is thinking that every little thing means everything. Because it just doesn't. You have to try to look at the bigger picture, and what it all comes back to at the end of the day.

There are thousands of couples who make huge blunders in their relationships, whether it be unfaithfulness or something else. And there are a fare share of times when they can say to themselves, "I don't know what I was thinking, it seems so stupid now" and "I made I mistake, I want to come home" or something along the lines of that. I realize it may not be the most romantic notion, but that's what's real. People can find their way back after things like that, and still be the Earth and Heaven to each other. So why can't Sawyer and Juliet be the Earth and Heaven to each other, when all he did was look at Kate for half of a second

As you can see, I can go on about this too

I feel like character relationships are the one thing on Lost that I can actually wrap my head around. With all the other stuff, I just have to sit...and wait for it to be explained to me

tvlover88 · 03-11-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TummyKisses (View Post)

I agree with you so much about this. It's completely believable that old feelings and memories associated with Kate would come flooding back to Sawyer. He hadn't seen in her in 3 years, and the last time he did see her, she was the woman that he loved. It's just that, none of that means that he'd been longing for her during all the time he spent with Juliet. I think the mistake, the thing that gets so many shippers worked up in both negative and positive ways, is thinking that every little thing means everything. Because it just doesn't. You have to try to look at the bigger picture, and what it all comes back to at the end of the day.

There are thousands of couples who make huge blunders in their relationships, whether it be unfaithfulness or something else. And there are a fare share of times when they can say to themselves, "I don't know what I was thinking, it seems so stupid now" and "I made I mistake, I want to come home" or something along the lines of that. I realize it may not be the most romantic notion, but that's what's real. People can find their way back after things like that, and still be the Earth and Heaven to each other. So why can't Sawyer and Juliet be the Earth and Heaven to each other, when all he did was look at Kate for half of a second

As you can see, I can go on about this too

I feel like character relationships are the one thing on Lost that I can actually wrap my head around. With all the other stuff, I just have to sit...and wait for it to be explained to me

I totally agree. One of the reasons I love S/J so much is because it is a realstic love. I can relate to them as a couple (well besides being stuck in the 70's

)

No matter how much you love the other person couples fight. It's part of a healthy realonship. People make msitakes it's part of being human,nobody is perfect. That dosen't mean that they are not supposd to be together.

I agree about the realtionships being the only thing I can usually figuire out

I'm usually confused 98% of the time when I'm watching

AdiG9 · 03-11-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvlover88 (View Post)

No matter how much you love the other person couples fight. It's part of a healthy realonship. People make msitakes it's part of being human,nobody is perfect. That dosen't mean that they are not supposd to be together.

So true! The whole look thing in the Incident was a miscommunication - a hiccup in an otherwise healthy, happy relationship.

BlueSkies · 03-11-2010, 08:08 PM

Had really a lot of fun catching up with this thread.

Awesome title, and yay for Robinson figuring Suliet out!

I have to agree that I was hoping Miles would brought to Ben up some of the fan questions about his 70's time, and Suliet

Three weeks without James... darn, my sis thinks he'll come back pointing a gun at a baddie, which made me LOL. Not that it's impossible, it's just fun to think of it. I don't care how, but he has to get back to LOST ASAP, cause that coffee date needs two to go dutch (L)

iram · 03-11-2010, 08:13 PM

About the incident, i still want to hear was Sawyer wanted to tell Juliet in the infamous If i never met you, i never have to lose you, when Juliet interrupted him. I have the same feeling that in the "Morning after epic" in Veronica mars, when Veronica dont let that Logan explain himself. I love both, Veronica and Juliet, but both should let their men talk.

I read one interesting theory about one of the promo pick. If you want to know it, send me a pm

tvlover88 · 03-11-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

The whole look thing in the Incident was a miscommunication - a hiccup in an otherwise healthy, happy relationship.

Exactly!

Quote:

I have to agree that I was hoping Miles would brought to Ben up some of the fan questions about his 70's time, and Suliet

Yeah me too. There is still time though.

Quote:

About the incident, i still want to hear was Sawyer wabted to tell Juliet in the infamous If i never met you, i never have to lose you, when Juliet interrupted him. I have the samw feeling that in the "Mornog afteran epic" in Veronica mars, when Veronica dont let that Logan explain himself. I love both, Veronica and Juliet, but both should let their men talk.

Me too! I would have loved to know what he was going to say. LoVe and Suliet two epic couples

Anck-Su-Namum · 03-11-2010, 08:26 PM

If you ask me, the "hiccup" in The Incident doesn't compare to the look James gave Juliet when they thought the bomb was going to off. He honestly thought that it was going to explode, and he chose one person to have one LAST look at. As far as he was concerned, Juliet was the last thing he'd ever lay eyes on.

The fact that he looked at her in that moment while Kate was present speaks volumes.

AdiG9 · 03-11-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anck-Su-Namum (View Post)

If you ask me, the "hiccup" in The Incident doesn't compare to the look James gave Juliet when they thought the bomb was going to off. He honestly thought that it was going to explode, and he chose one person to have one LAST look at. As far as he was concerned, Juliet was the last thing he'd ever lay eyes on.

The fact that he looked at her in that moment while Kate was present speaks volumes.

Exactly! The look at Kate was an aberration - when it really mattered, Sawyer and Juliet only had eyes for each other. When he thought he was going to die, Sawyer looked at Juliet.

TummyKisses · 03-11-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anck-Su-Namum (View Post)

If you ask me, the "hiccup" in The Incident doesn't compare to the look James gave Juliet when they thought the bomb was going to off.

Of course. That's just been outweighed by so many things. James was gazing at Juliet when he thought the world was about to end (and Kate was staring at Jack, as opposed to the leaf she was looking at during the hiccup

) It's Juliet who James begged to hold. And it's Juliet who he is now lost and broken without.

tvlover88 · 03-11-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

If you ask me, the "hiccup" in The Incident doesn't compare to the look James gave Juliet when they thought the bomb was going to off. He honestly thought that it was going to explode, and he chose one person to have one LAST look at. As far as he was concerned, Juliet was the last thing he'd ever lay eyes on.

The fact that he looked at her in that moment while Kate was present speaks volumes.

Exactly. The last thing he ever wanted to look at was Juliet that means everything.

Quote:

James was gazing at Juliet when he thought the world was about to end (and Kate was staring at Jack, as opposed to the leaf she was looking at during the hiccup ) It's Juliet who James begged to hold. And it's Juliet who he is now lost and broken without.

I think that moment speaks volumes about the whole quardrandgle and who really loves whome. James loves Juliet,Juliet loves James,Jack loves Kate and Kate loves Jack.

about the leaf!


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > Lost > The Fords [S&J] #58: Sawyer grew into the man that she always knew was inside him. ~ Lost Magazine. Wordaap!