taovande

Twirble--I agree with you. Summer is always a bit dull as far as movies go---The Fall season for movies is coming up now, which means the better movies.

shrrshrr

Whoah - so much to catch up on! I'll try and respond to all the posts later, but I do have to add that like some of you, I'm not a movie snob/elitest (although I wouldn't put it in those terms, either, as everyone has a right to her or his favorite genre!).

And yet, given that, there's still just crap all out there... Interestingly it means my previously almost non-existent TV viewing has increased by leaps and bounds (which means I'm watching four shows this year). Take that, movie moguls!

Cathangel

Interesting thread: this is exactly what I've been telling myself for the last few months. I just had to put my two cents in it. I work at a video store and I usually catch the movies when they come out on DVD, but when a movie interests me enough, I go to the theater. The thing is, though, that it's been a while since I've actually been genuinely interested enough in a movie to go to the theater to see it. My major beef with Hollywood right now is that there are no orignal ideas for movies coming from this industry at this point. You just have to look at what this summer offered us: Superman Returns (sequel and based on a comic book), Pirates of the Caribbean 2 (sequel), The Lake House (remake of Il Mare), X-Men 3 (sequel and based on a comic book), the Da Vinci Code (based on a book), just to name a few. The last movies I thought were worth buying were some old movies I recently discovered and foreign films. I also hate the Hollywood tendency to dumb everything down (and sacrifice quality of dialogue and story for it) to please as large an audience as possible.

Someone else was also making an interesting comparison with the TV industry. The TV industry has so much interesting and original ideas for shows that like a lot of people here, my TV watching has increased in the last few years. Serialised TV shows like 24, Lost, Prison Break, etc., make the production value look like we're watching a mini-movie every week and develop character stories that are compelling. There is also a lot of diversity in this industry, almost something for everyone. I, for one, watch diverse TV shows in terms of style from serialsed drama/action shows like Lost, Prison Break, 24 to a forensic, funny and dramatic show like House MD to a comedy like The Office, etc. I buy a lot more TV show DVD boxsets then I do movies these days. For the last few years, my video store has also started to rent TV shows by discs and I can tell you that the returns for TV shows are starting to outweigh by a fair margin any other movie category.

UnsilentMajorty

The reason almost everything coming out of mainstream Hollywood is a remake or sequel is because it is (in theory) a safe proposition for the studios in terms of making the private investors and stockholders happy... Which is the bottom line, no pun intended, in the entertainment industry more than artistic integrity these days.

Also, the more nefarious reason most things are remakes or based on best-selling novels is because those who approve of those projects can then use them as scapegoats if the projects bomb to save their jobs, aka asses.

For example, let's say studio exec/producer X buys the rights to book Y and they make book Y into a movie and it bombs. All studio exec X has to say was, "Well, it didn't translate that well to the screen". If book Y becomes a major hit as a movie adaptation the same studio exec can say, "I knew this would make a great movie! Where's my raise, expense account, blonde secretary and corner office?"

Also, speaking of who some of these movie moguls really are... A good percentage of the new, up-and-coming studio execs are in fact mostly young males in their 20s and 30s which means a couple of things:

A) They don't read as much compared to someone in their 40s and 50s (generational thing).

When someone comes to them and says, "Hey. Have you read book Y? It's fantastic!" chances are the person who told them about book Y also hasn't read it either and is going by what someone said at a party one night and the person at the party heard about the book from a review about the NY Times best-sellers list. So, the young exec will make a push to buy the rights to the book even if the book itself is mediocre just to be "hip and cool" and show his bosses that he has his pulse on what is "hot" and they made the right decision hiring him in the first place. This is also why we are getting bad movies based on books as well considering a lot of books aren't as good as they are hyped up to be and you have the classic case of a bad book being turned into a bad movie.

B) Most of them are teenagers at heart... Meaning even if the person is in their 30s, they act like a teenager 90% of the time in terms of how they live their life and what they consider to be in "good taste".

This is why they will often push for scripts, actors and directors they like that mostly appeal to 13-18-year olds because some of them are trying to fullfill some fantasies they had when they were still in high school and in college.

This is mainly because as stereotypical as this sounds a lot of the incoming studio execs were in fact the AV squad and "film geeks" in high school and college and they didn't have very good social lives (a good percentage of the time) which is why they are living out their fantasies once they get into the studio system in positions of power where they can determine who is in what and how things play out in the very real sense.

This is why you have actresses like Jessica Alba, Jessica Simpson and other eye-candy/trophy wives being put in films they have no business being in. It is not just because their agents are shrewd negotiators. Their agents know how most young, male Hollywood execs think (above) and take advantage of this to get their clients work.

So, if you consider some of the above elements it is no wonder we are getting dumbed down crap for under-age kids most of the time, let alone remakes and sequels.

Contrast this to TV where a lot of those working on that side of the industry ARE older (chronologically and experience-wise) because as a TV producer you are 90% of the time an actual screenwriter and have had to prove yourself over the years which means you grow as a person and artist compared to the young, up-and-coming studio exec that really doesn't have to grow up in the traditional sense....

And you can see why there is a definitive difference in the kinds of shows that are put on and why the writing appears more adult in the overall sense. Most of your younger writers will be on the sitcoms and "lesser" shows compared to the seasoned pros like Aaron Sorkin and Dick Wolf (to name a few) who will helm the more prominent prime-time dramas (JJ Abrams is an anomoly and not that talented or original in my opinion, but that is a discussion for another thread and time...).

mattia

I had to stop in and post as a movie fan...I probably go to the movies every weekend, at least once. I love seeing movies in the theatre, although this is getting hard to do...mainly because of reasons already stated. people are so rude now!! I cant believe how some ppl act....I went and saw a (bad) movie last nite, and about 4 rows below us was a group that can only be called white trash with 2 kids under the age of 7.....the movie was Flyboys and the kids were bored to tears (as was I)...they acted out several times and the parents also talked and screamed a couple times....

I definitely think theatres need to start introducing some stronger rules.....

anyway, onto the movies....
As someone who sees a TON of movies, the last few years have been really weak...there is nothing new out there...everything is either a re-make, a video game or a comic book. Now sometimes this can work, as it did for V for Vendetta, but most of it is laughable....I have to say the only movie in the last 2 months I have seen that was worth my money was The Illusionist.

I look forward to The Prestige and The Departed.....and while I love horror, I loathe most of the stuff that has come out in recent years. All remakes and dumbed down PG-13 crap....I have to say I did enjoy the Ring and THe original Saw....

I also think there are way too many Sequels....now a days they just milk that cash cow until it runs dry....and when they run out, they just wait 10 or 15 years and start the franchise over.....I for one would rather die than see another James Bond movie, especially with the Layer Cake guy...I think not....

and as for POTC2, yeah I saw it, and it wasnt that great....and i guess I did go for the hot guys and the love story.....but some of the best movies of all time are what I would call "chick flicks"....and I am NOT saying POTC2 is even close to being a great movie of all time....but something tells me that someone else than young love sick girls made up the more than 400 million the movie has made. I would go see something like this anyday over something I deem completely inane, which I would say right now is anything that Jon Heder is in.....there is nothing I hate worse than a movie that is completely stupid and dumbed down...

ok, well I just cant rant anymore, so I am going to have to stop right now...I have the second part of Lucky number Slevin to finish watching, which so far I am not impressed with at all....

UnsilentMajorty

The main reason Pirates made so much is because of HYPE. Period.

The thing about a film or other piece of entertainment/art becoming a financial success is this is by no means an indicator of whether or not the film is actually good or not. It is NOT an automatic cause-and-effect relationship.

This is what has happened with Pirates and most movies of this type: People go see the movie, it is not that great, but the tickets they bought are counted as part of the overall gross. Hence, it makes 400 million on buzz and disappointed movie-goers when all is said and done.

Obviously, some people like this movie and that is fine...

But again, if we are going to look at it objectively, not EVERYONE can like this film as much as Hollywood thinks. It is statistically NOT POSSIBLE (even worldwide) which is why it is a case of people handing over their money, seeing the film, not finding it that good, and NOT going to it again. The interesting thing is they can NOT recommend it to friends, but due to curiousity and buzz, their friends will STILL go see it, hence the cycle continues.

hello[goodbye]x

Agreed.

When you compare a new movie that has just come out to a new TV show which has just been introduced to us, a lot of the time it is evident that the TV show has more creativity and originality than the movie does. Saying that, I am still a big movie fan. I go to the cinema a lot with my friends and usually leave satisfied with what I've seen, but lately the movies I have seen have just been good. They've not been brilliant.

I usually don't mind watching sequels to movies, in fact, I enjoy it, but it does get a bit boring. The TV shows you mentioned such as Lost and 24 are extremely well made and actually show the viewers good creativity first hand. Movie creaters should take a leaf out of TV show creator's books. It might give them a helping hand for new ideas.

mattia

well, and hopefully this will not contradict myself too much, but to add to what Majority has pointed out about box office numbers, I hate that now it is just all about how much money something makes....its totally ok to put out either cheap crap that will make its money back or expensive crap with alot of hype that will also make its money back....

I think its totally fine for a movie to make a ton of money....like Titanic....it is the butt of all jokes now, but when that movie came out, most people were in total awe and I think it deserved every dime it made.

There is nothing I love more now than seeing some of these limited release movies slowly open wide and make good profits based on word of mouth....I think so far this is what is happening for Little Miss Sunshine and The Illusionist....and while I have only seen the latter, I will say I think it deserves its buzz, unlike The Black Dahlia which I saw tonite and thought was completely awful.

ring of fire

One of the main problems is that most people believes that a movie is good or bad according to how many people goes to see it. Some movies aren't box office hits and the media starts saying they are failure. Sometimes these "failures" are better than the huge hits. Some hits are really bad

For example, X-Men 3. I love X-Men since I was kid and I enjoy the first two movies but the third one was awful. When I went out of the cinema I wanted my money back. I can't believe I paid to see that. The movie isn't about X-Men, it's a cheap storyline about love triangles and it was completly made to sell.

I'm really tired of movies only made to sell. Sometimes they have good actors and a good storyline but they screw up everything when they start changing stuff so it's more 'appealing' to most people.

-Kelly-

I haven't seen any movies for months now. Nothing is worth watching.

UnsilentMajorty

I think the remake of "The Posiedon Adventure" aka Poseidon, which came out in May, isn't that bad of a pop-corn, disaster flick... Which is the whole point. When I go see a movie like this I am not expecting it to change the world or effect me in any other way than to entertain me for a 90 minutes to two hours... And it did just that.

X-Men three is HORRIBLE. It is mostly because of the writers -- Who wrote "Catwoman" if this is any indication -- And the director, Brett Ratner who is a Michael Bay wannabe in he purposefuly makes dumbed-down movies and he gets jobs mainly because he can make these big action flicks and come in under budget.

This is a sad side-effect of Hollywood having to tighten their belts and another Catch-22 because the future will now be who(m)ever can bring a movie in under budget regardless if they are a good director/actor/producer/writer which is sometimes worse than overpaying truly talented people... Yet this very thing is what got Hollywood in this big financial mess in the first place. Oy vey!

As we have been discussing... The biggest problem for U.S. cinema/Hollywood is they cater too much to the under-age and teen market because they percieve them to have more disposable income... Which is actually a FALSE perception for a lot of reasons I won't go into here. Suffice to say, this is why most films are dumbed down PG-13 crapfests written with the mentality of a 14-year old in mind because this is EXACTLY who they catering to, unfortunately.

Again contrast to TV who used to do this as well... Be completely youth-oriented and obsessed... But it changed very quickly over the past couple of years when networks like CBS started to out-do networks like FOX, The WB and NBC who prided themselves on being "hip and cool" when CBS put shows on the air that ANYONE of any age could potentially like CSI, Criminal Minds, NCIS, etc.

Like I said above, I don't have problem with films that are meant to entertain and nothing more... Like "Poseidon"... But again, there just aren't enough movies like this coming out and the rest consists of what we've been discussing and that is films whose sole purpose is to be a loss-leader for the few truly good and adult-oriented films... Usually, the Oscar nominated films... That only come out during the fall and early Winter before Oscars.

goodnightboy

This links up well with the issue of hype. Take any big-budget film (which inevitably will have a combination of well-known actors going through the motions and with the requisite love story/scenes, mediocre scriptwriting, lots of hype etc) - the fact is that if you see enough advertising, you might be swayed into wanting to see the film, unless it is that incredibly bad, which normally it isn't (it's just substandard). And in fact for some people, they might want to go see something so bad, but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, the point is that people will probably end up watching it. And who is more susceptible to this peddling than the teenage crowd, who are less picky and more enamoured by what the studios can drum up? (Did that make sense?)

So the point is that Hollywood comes up with these big movies because the teenage crowd goes for it, they're the biggest audience for movies. And the rest of us bemoan the lack of good films until the Ocar period.

ksruckman

It has been a little boring lately...Jackass 2 had my tail laughing, and I'm hoping Employee of the Month, Chainsaw Massacre-The Beginning and Saw 3 will liven things up a bit!