[GardenSirens]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I think that this has already turned into more of a general discussion thread, which is fine. We've brought up other shows and other characters already, and I think that this is a valid topic for this board, because a lot of people who watch shows like these are impressionable, and I don't like some of the messages that these shows send out.

Which is awesome it's more general discussion (the title can be offputting to people who don't watch the show). It's true shows have bad messages that they send to people. TV shows on regular networks can pose a problem. Video games have M ratings to protect, movies R ratings....but tv shows, if they're on basic cable channels, anyone can and will watch them when they shouldn't. That's why I watch HBO shows...no censoring, no commercials and people who watch those shows know what is going on.

[LotusRises]

See when I started watching DC, I was 13 years old. So at the time, everything Joey said about Jen, I agreed with. I got sucked into the whole Madonna whore complex surround Joey vs. Jen but then when I rewatched the show a few months ago, I realize how truly awful Joey was.

[Jerry D]

I hated how cruel Joey was to Jen, and I remember the I Hate Jen Website, and I never understood why she was hated so much, because I always liked her, even when I was a Dawson and Joey fan. Ironically, as the seasons wore on, more and more people liked Jen and didn't like Joey, as Joey emerged as an incredibly selfish character who didn't deserve to be lionized by Pacey and Dawson and almost all of the other characters.

[sunnykerr]

I was that teenager who also agree with Joey and now realize how cruel she was being to Jen.

But maybe there's a limited way in which that could have been the point.

Kids can be cruel. Especially when they're feeling insecure and Lord knows Joey was insecure.

Of course, then it becomes about the limitations of that cruelty.

I'll be honest, I haven't looked back in ages. But I seem to remember that Jen eventually told Joey a truth or two that landed.

I don't expect my shows to present perfect human beings, but as long as their mistakes, their nasty sides and their ill deeds are presented as such, I wouldn't have much of a problem.

That's sort of what I liked about Veronica Mars, the show and the person. There weren't a whole lot of perfect angels on that show and that was made evident repeatedly.

[LotusRises]

I don't expect my shows to present perfect human beings, but as long as their mistakes, their nasty sides and their ill deeds are presented as such, I wouldn't have much of a problem.

IA but Joey was supposed to be the heroine which made the whole thing problematic.


Yup, Jerry. I thought Joey was awful to both Pacey and Dawson. And I found it disgusting that the boys held Joey to this unrealistic standard that every other girl they dated tried to desperately live up to.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by LotusRises (View Post) Yup, Jerry. I thought Joey was awful to both Pacey and Dawson. And I found it disgusting that the boys held Joey to this unrealistic standard that every other girl they dated tried to desperately live up to.

Exactly. The show, and Dawson and Pacey, made Joey out to be the ideal woman, but she was far from the ideal woman. She treated both Dawson and Pacey horribly, but they both still fell at her feet and told her how wonderful she was, right up until the very end.

[Vikram Phalange]

5. Have Fun!

I'm dreading Elena's second apology in the finale for being abused by Damon all season, whilst they will most likely have damon be all understanding rather than have him apologize to her.

[Jaime Bee]

I can't believe she apologized to him at all.

Of course I can cause this is JP.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by Vikram Phalange (View Post) I'm dreading Elena's second apology in the finale for being abused by Damon all season, whilst they will most likely have damon be all understanding rather than have him apologize to her.

I am going to puke when that happens.

[Jaime Bee]

Not only because of how he has had control over her all season but Damon was the one that got her to shut off her humanity in the first place. Anything that happened was his fault not hers.

It makes me sick that there is a thread title about it being a good thing that Damon was the first she apologized to.

[Bree347]

It will happen because it fits in with DE's whole relationship. Elena feeling bad about not loving Damon, like she is obligated to.

[Jaime Bee]

Of course and if she does get to tell him she chose Stefan again. It will also be a way to soften the blow maybe.

[Jerry D]

I was in the waiting room at my doctor’s office this morning and I picked up an issue of Entertainment Weekly, and there was an article in it on witches in the movies and on television, and in the article, Julie Plec said she “empowers women” in her shows, and I almost laughed out loud. She’s seriously deluded if she thinks that she “empowers women” in her shows.

[Bree347]

and yet she writes a SL where the lead female has no agency & lives to please her boyfriend. wow.

[AlwaysBL]

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) I was in the waiting room at my doctor’s office and I picked up an issue of Entertainment Weekly, and there was an article in it on witches in the movies and on television, and in the article, Julie Plec said she “empowers women” in her shows, and I almost laughed out loud. She’s seriously deluded if she thinks that she “empowers women” in her shows.

Yeah this is the same girl who stripped her heroine of her agency all season and never even began to address half the problems.

What's pathetic is that Tyler had a sire bond arc and I thought it was a good story. His was portrayed as one of actual slavery though, whereas Elena's was just some sort of romanticized piece of crap. And Tyler fought it off, he then proceeded to take a stand against it this season. I mean, that's empowering. Writing a story of a girl who is sired and falls in love and is consumed by it but it may not be real...this is the opposite of empowering. She was stripped of her free will and I don't believe the term free will has even been brought up on the show. Not once. Only in JP's Twitter chats does she feel it necessary to focus on something other than man pain.

And actually, they created the Tyler sire bond storyline and used it as a setup for Elena. The majority of the quotes explaining the disgusting elements of a sire bond are used for Tyler, not for Elena. Because they don't want to paint Damon as a villain. They brushed over every single issue in an attempt to protect his character. Klaus used the sire bonds so as to not feel alone, which is never an excuse, but then again for him it was never used as one. But Damon? Oh he's never been loved and that's all he wants, so it's okay.