[posterity]

What I find as problematic as the sexism I witness on the show is the treatment of POC. I find it ironic that only now is Kat speaking out against the terrible characterization and plotlines on the show. I fear it is because she was afraid she would lose her job and as a POC she realized how difficult it would be to find roles. The fact that Bonnie is the only one not to have any real love story is so blatant and it seems that JP tries to work around seeming racially biased by creating it so that all the witches are black. That way a POC is always somehow featured on her show, while actually having no perspective or voice.

[Pelisse]

I have a feeling Julie Plec is well aware that Elena willingly being with Damon would send a very wrong message. She just refuses to address it publicly; instead she came up with the sire bond storyline in order to make Delena happen without it being Elena's choice.

And I'm honestly not sure what's worse: having Elena come to terms with her attraction to Damon and willingly choose him despite everything he's done, or having her be with Damon while she has absolutely no agency?

I think I'm leaning towards the latter being worse. If there was more emphasis on Elena struggling with the moral implications of her attraction to Damon, I could be okay with it, just like I was okay with Spuffy. While I think Spike (before he had a soul) was as horrible a person as Damon is, I never really had a big issue with Buffy's attraction to him, because we witnessed her deeply struggling with it, and she was well aware of how wrong it was. We haven't really seen that with Elena.

[McQueenFanGirl]

Originally Posted by posterity (View Post) What I find as problematic as the sexism I witness on the show is the treatment of POC. I find it ironic that only now is Kat speaking out against the terrible characterization and plotlines on the show. I fear it is because she was afraid she would lose her job and as a POC she realized how difficult it would be to find roles. The fact that Bonnie is the only one not to have any real love story is so blatant and it seems that JP tries to work around seeming racially biased by creating it so that all the witches are black. That way a POC is always somehow featured on her show, while actually having no perspective or voice.

Personally, I think JP (and the other writers) have a fear of making Bonnie too different, which is something they can't avoid because its visually obvious just how different she is. I'm not just talking about race here, there's also the fact that for a long time Bonnie was one of the few characters who cared to differentiate between was what objectively right and wrong.

I liked it when she stood up for others and herself. In season 1, she was the moral compass, albeit sometimes this made her "judgy" or annoying to some, I loved it. Every show needs that one character who will stand up to speak when something is wrong, but as the seasons dragged on Bonnie started to lose that charm. Now we rarely see any moments of anyone questioning right and wrong, good and evil. IMO, ignoring this element of the show is how JP is even able to write around issues like rape, sexism and so much more.

[Jaime Bee]

Originally Posted by Pelisse (View Post) I have a feeling Julie Plec is well aware that Elena willingly being with Damon would send a very wrong message. She just refuses to address it publicly; instead she came up with the sire bond storyline in order to make Delena happen without it being Elena's choice. And I'm honestly not sure what's worse: having Elena come to terms with her attraction to Damon and willingly choose him despite everything he's done, or having her be with Damon while she has absolutely no agency? I think I'm leaning towards the latter being worse. If there was more emphasis on Elena struggling with the moral implications of her attraction to Damon, I could be okay with it, just like I was okay with Spuffy. While I think Spike (before he had a soul) was as horrible a person as Damon is, I never really had a big issue with Buffy's attraction to him, because we witnessed her deeply struggling with it, and she was well aware of how wrong it was. We haven't really seen that with Elena.

Well I really hope that means she won't pick Damon ever.

I'm glad we saw such a struggle for Buffy too.

Elena just lets Damon do anything to her and the people she loves and accepts it like it's nothing.

The line about how she likes him the way he is now made me sick. I was hoping she only said that because he was dying but I was wrong.

[LotusRises]

Originally Posted by McQueenFanGirl (View Post) Personally, I think JP (and the other writers) have a fear of making Bonnie too different, which is something they can't avoid because its visually obvious just how different she is. I'm not just talking about race here, there's also the fact that for a long time Bonnie was one of the few characters who cared to differentiate between was what objectively right and wrong. I liked it when she stood up for others and herself. In season 1, she was the moral compass, albeit sometimes this made her "judgy" or annoying to some, I loved it. Every show needs that one character who will stand up to speak when something is wrong, but as the seasons dragged on Bonnie started to lose that charm. Now we rarely see any moments of anyone questioning right and wrong, good and evil. IMO, ignoring this element of the show is how JP is even able to write around issues like rape, sexism and so much more.

I hate that fandom vilified her for hating vampires and once the did, the writers no longer allowed her to vocalize her opinions against Damon, against anyone. Bonnie is a victim of Dapmon and Elena yet even in her dying day she's fighting for these losers.

As far as Elena goes, I hate that the writers use Elena's compassion as an excuse for her to be accepting of the way Damon behaves. Just because you are compassionate, doesn't mean you are a dumb ass.

[mjgchick]

Ohh I like this thread.

Can we talk about how the show wants us to excuse characters like Klaus and Damon with all the bad they do but they've suddenly have Elena blaming Katherine for every terrible thing that's happened to her? If Elena was just pissed at her for killing her brother I'd be okay with it but Elena who knows that Klaus is why Katherine is the way she is seems to be think Katherine is the root of all evil. I'd like to think because Elena knows that she can't kill Klaus but it just seems like Elan has only tried to kill the women on the show when her humanity was off. Now that it's on she seems seems to blame Katherine. Not Damon who killed Jeremy before, not Stefan who could've left Mystic Falls after realizing she's not Katherine and not the man who forced an innocent girl to kill herself just to survive because of what she can do for him.

I can't even get into how they treat Bonnie. I might raise my blood pressure.

[posterity]

Every show needs that one character who will stand up to speak when something is wrong, but as the seasons dragged on Bonnie started to lose that charm.

I think if Bonnie was blond and saying half the stuff she said in season 1, the audience would find her spunky and cool. Even if we do not want to have these undercover biases we do. The writers know it and this is why they toned down Bonnie to the point where she had almost no opinion to Damon and Elena having a sexual relationship this season. It's the idea that a black girl had the nerve to challenge the blue eyed bad boy that set people ablaze. It's the same problem that was found with the Gossip Girl fandom. People hated Vanessa and found a way to insult her using ethnic jokes , calling her a troll. These subtle biases are unfortunately not just perpetuated by the writers, but also the views as well.

I'd like to think because Elena knows that she can't kill Klaus but it just seems like Elan has only tried to kill the women on the show when her humanity was off.

This is extremely problematic. I am not sure if JP believes Elena did not have the power to try to kill men on the show but it came off as badass!Elena was choosing other women as a target. What kind of message does this send to young girls who are having problems with their peers? It is the reason why when a girl breaks up with her boyfriend for cheating, instead of addressing the fact that he cheated on her, she starts to gossip and attack the girl he had the cheating relationship with. When are women going to stop being the brunt of other women's attacks?

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by posterity (View Post) I think if Bonnie was blond and saying half the stuff she said in season 1, the audience would find her spunky and cool. Even if we do not want to have these undercover biases we do. The writers know it and this is why they toned down Bonnie to the point where she had almost no opinion to Damon and Elena having a sexual relationship this season. It's the idea that a black girl had the nerve to challenge the blue eyed bad boy that set people ablaze. It's the same problem that was found with the Gossip Girl fandom. People hated Vanessa and found a way to insult her using ethnic jokes , calling her a troll. These subtle biases are unfortunately not just perpetuated by the writers, but also the views as well.

I can’t speak for everyone that hated Vanessa, but I hated her and it had nothing to do with the fact that she was bi-racial on the show and that Jessica Szohr is bi-racial in real life. Vanessa/Jessica was gorgeous, but I found her to be an annoying and pointless character and a huge hypocrite, and that’s why I didn’t like her. I never called her a troll, and I never knew that the expression troll had racial connotations until Shu posted about that recently, but I just disliked Vanessa period.

When I used to watch The Vampire Diaries in the early seasons, I really liked Bonnie and I liked that she wouldn’t take Damon’s crap. It’s too bad that they apparently ruined her character.

Originally Posted by posterity (View Post) This is extremely problematic. I am not sure if JP believes Elena did not have the power to try to kill men on the show but it came off as badass!Elena was choosing other women as a target. What kind of message does this send to young girls who are having problems with their peers? It is the reason why when a girl breaks up with her boyfriend for cheating, instead of addressing the fact that he cheated on her, she starts to gossip and attack the girl he had the cheating relationship with. When are women going to stop being the brunt of other women's attacks?

Excellent point. That often happens on shows. Joey was really cruel to Jen on Dawson’s Creek just because Dawson liked her, and Serena and Blair would do and say really horrible things to each other on Gossip Girl, but they never really lashed out at the guys, or at least not as much. I think that does send out a terrible message to the young girls that watch these shows.

[AlwaysBL]

When Damon forced the corsage on Elena in the prom episode, I was wondering why she didn't attack him right there. This is a guy who has been attempting to force her into things for 3 seasons (and actually succeeded via a sire bond this season) and now she's a vampire and she's bad enough that she's in a state where she'd kill her best friends, but Damon can STILL have his way with her. I mean really. Even with no ~compassion (an excuse JP likes to stand behind), she wasn't allowed to stand up for herself.

Meanwhile she tries to kill Caroline for telling her what to do. And Bonnie for no reason whatsoever.

[Pelisse]

Originally Posted by posterity (View Post) I think if Bonnie was blond and saying half the stuff she said in season 1, the audience would find her spunky and cool. Even if we do not want to have these undercover biases we do. The writers know it and this is why they toned down Bonnie to the point where she had almost no opinion to Damon and Elena having a sexual relationship this season. It's the idea that a black girl had the nerve to challenge the blue eyed bad boy that set people ablaze. It's the same problem that was found with the Gossip Girl fandom. People hated Vanessa and found a way to insult her using ethnic jokes , calling her a troll. These subtle biases are unfortunately not just perpetuated by the writers, but also the views as well.

I couldn't agree more... Bonnie would definitely have been labeled spunky/sassy had she been blond, and likely could have been a fan favorite. So I think the audience is as much to blame as the writers when it comes to Bonnie's treatment.

[LotusRises]

Originally Posted by AlwaysBL (View Post) When Damon forced the corsage on Elena in the prom episode, I was wondering why she didn't attack him right there. This is a guy who has been attempting to force her into things for 3 seasons (and actually succeeded via a sire bond this season) and now she's a vampire and she's bad enough that she's in a state where she'd kill her best friends, but Damon can STILL have his way with her. I mean really. Even with no ~compassion (an excuse JP likes to stand behind), she wasn't allowed to stand up for herself. Meanwhile she tries to kill Caroline for telling her what to do. And Bonnie for no reason whatsoever.

And I hate when people use the excuse that Elena only attacks the women because they're not as strong when Bonnie is stronger than everyone.

Also it was quite disgusting that it took Matt's life to snap her out of her funk. JP says its because he's human but April and Sheriff Forbes are also human and she didn't hesitate to attack then.

And what is Caroline Dries obsession with women getting beaten or tortured in her episodes?

[Jewelstone]

Originally Posted by posterity (View Post) What I find as problematic as the sexism I witness on the show is the treatment of POC. I find it ironic that only now is Kat speaking out against the terrible characterization and plotlines on the show. I fear it is because she was afraid she would lose her job and as a POC she realized how difficult it would be to find roles. The fact that Bonnie is the only one not to have any real love story is so blatant and it seems that JP tries to work around seeming racially biased by creating it so that all the witches are black. That way a POC is always somehow featured on her show, while actually having no perspective or voice.

Kat has a tumblr and I remember someone on there asked if she was getting paid under the table to constantly talk up the writers and promote the show. She got annoyed and went on and on about how the show gave her so many opportunities, she was poor before she got the job, it brought her to fame, etc. Basically, she feels obligated to JP. I also think you're right about her being afraid to lose her job because she recently liked a tumblr post that called out her haters and said it's a shame Kat can't afford to be opinionated like Paul.

Bonnie is the classic example of a magical negro and it's funny how many people try to deny that. Everytime the way she is treated is brought up, there is always someone who says something like "I don't even see her as black" or "No one would call her a servant if she was white." I recently found the perfect video that describes how Bonnie is a magical negro, although Melina doesn't actually use Bonnie as her example. But if you replace the character she uses with Bonnie, then nothing would change. She even gives a shoutout to Bonnie at the end of the video.
The Magical Negro - YouTube

[GardenSirens]

uhh...is this a serious thread?

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by placebobsh (View Post) uhh...is this a serious thread?

Yes it is. That's why it's on this board.

[GardenSirens]

doesn't belong here. you could overanalzye anything on tv or in the theatres as ot "social issues".