Buffy and Angel - Winifred Burkle & Charles Gunn [Forkers] 11: Because Fred is one of the few people in his life who could call him "pretty" and stay alive. - Page 4

**Crystal Clear** · 01-16-2019, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

Gunn did it all for Fred, to spare her the pain of killing the professor herself, Fred became really unlikeable with the way she treated him afterwards

They were another victim of the Season 4 dip in quality

Joss went from writing Fred/Gunn as a healthy couple (Waiting in the Wings) to having Gunn fraught with insecurities and at war with Wesley over her (Spin The Bottle).

I think they were trying to rush Wesley back into the group by making him the romantic hero for her and replacing Gunn with him.

I hated Gunn's "I'm still the muscle" speech.

It was forced, for sure. He looked after Fred and Connor during the summer when everyone else had disappeared.

**starryeyesxx** · 01-16-2019, 02:32 PM

It broke my heart that Gunn felt that way, he's definitely one of the characters that I feel like the writers really mistreated

**Crystal Clear** · 01-16-2019, 02:51 PM

It is totally degrading to his character

Such a superficial observation about somebody who has worked damn hard to support the group for a long time.

**eternalfate** · 01-16-2019, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal Clear (View Post)

I totally get what you mean.

I didn't like how they randomly changed Fred in Season 4 when she killed the Professor. I mean, as much as I loved Wesley, her romantic interest in him came out of nowhere

Yeah... everything I pretty much loved about Fred in season 3 completely vanished after the first few episodes of Season 4.

It's a shame how much they had to change her just to break up Gunn/Fred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

I agree. I don't think she even had a romantic interest in Wesley during s4, she was just looking for a distraction from her problems with Gunn. The writers said themselves when writing 5x12 that they had two episodes to develop her feelings for him, so it obviously wasn't something that had been there all along. & even then, they only gave her those feelings because they were going to kill her off & wanted to make it all about Wesley's pain - classy, right?

She sure did not! It doesn't matter if the fanbase for a certain pairing was big... Fred did NOT have romantic feelings for Wes. She loved him as a friend and it wasn't even a real choice with her choosing between Gunn and Wes since she didn't see Wes in the romantic way she saw Gunn!

Well I can see why the writers said that because I just didn't see the feelings between them.
Even in season 5 I didn't see it...

Probably if the writers actually built them a bit more I would've brought it but I didn't.
It was mainly all from Wes side and than Wes/Fred were together so... nothing to really care about there.

Probably they should have spent the whole season 5 building it up... and don't act like her feelings for Gunn never existed.

**starryeyesxx** · 01-16-2019, 07:35 PM

They handled the whole thing terribly - I think it's one of those relationships where they focus so much on the guy's feelings for the girl, & how tragic that is for him & he that makes everyone think that he must deserve to get her in the end, that they forget about her character completely & just make her to be what they need when she needs it. I hate those kinds of romances.

At least with Gunn, it was something the writers let happen organically, she was coming into her own again & as she got ready to have a life in the real world again, it was Gunn who she wanted to be with

**Crystal Clear** · 01-17-2019, 03:20 AM

I loved those moments where Fred and Gunn got away from the drama for a while (season 3) and went on dates together. Like in 'Couplet' when they ate pancakes together in the cafe

To me, that was way sweeter than anything that took place in Season 4 and beyond.

I really missed them together in S5.

**starryeyesxx** · 01-17-2019, 08:26 AM

Same, I so badly wanted them to have another chance

& I agree that they were the sweetest couple, plus it gave the show some much needed lighter moments & scenes

The Angel Rewatch, Angel Rewatch 3.07 “Offspring” (4/?)

**Crystal Clear** · 01-17-2019, 11:06 AM

^

I always loved that scene! Fred was so desperately trying to understand the bizarre relationships of Angel Investigations.

**starryeyesxx** · 01-18-2019, 07:28 AM

Me too, she had a lot to catch up on

**Crystal Clear** · 01-18-2019, 02:14 PM

Plus, the idea that they keep files on Angel's love life just cracks me up

I liked the earlier episodes of Season 3. Gunn really tried hard to make Fred feel comfortable when he saw how nervous she was in the hotel.

**starryeyesxx** · 01-18-2019, 06:27 PM

I think that when you look at those early episodes, Gunn was definitely a safe person for Fred that she gravitated towards when she was nervous

It's a good idea for them to keep files really, who knew who would be in Angel's gang a hundred years from now, & they would need to know everything that happened because Angel isn't exactly a sharer

**Crystal Clear** · 01-19-2019, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

they would need to know everything that happened because Angel isn't exactly a sharer

Excellent point!

I think BILLY was a fantastic episode of the show and one of my favorite things was that Gunn took a long time to transition after Billy's touch - the moment he shows aggression toward Fred, the real Gunn panics and BEGS her to knock him out.

**eternalfate** · 01-21-2019, 04:48 PM

^ I told Sophie that when we re-watched that episode that the moment from Billy was legit one of my favorite underrated moments between Gunn/Fred!

Gunn controlled himself long enough to not hurt Fred.

**starryeyesxx** · 01-23-2019, 10:23 AM

It really was, he knew something was happening to him, & her being safe was his only priority - he didn't care what it meant for him

**eternalfate** · 01-25-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

It really was, he knew something was happening to him, & her being safe was his only priority - he didn't care what it meant for him

I know! he already had feelings for her, even then.

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Buffy and Angel > Winifred Burkle & Charles Gunn [Forkers] 11: Because Fred is one of the few people in his life who could call him "pretty" and stay alive.