Everwood - Everwood Fans who are Dawson/Joey & Pacey/Andie Fans of Dawson's Creek #32: Writer's Advice to Williamson : Don't start what you can't finish. - Page 10

TL22 · 10-02-2021, 10:24 AM

Posted by Wilpensports

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In a lot of ways, the series should have been one and done. Granted, we wouldn't have received Pacey and Andie but in my mind, given how they ended it probably would have been better not having such perfection and then watching it get destroyed. Too bad Berlanti couldn't have "found" Pacey/Andie for a later series of his in the future.

I think he did.I see a lot of Pacey and Andie in Bright and Hannah.

**jediwands** · 10-02-2021, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)

Posted by Wilpensports

I think he did.I see a lot of Pacey and Andie in Bright and Hannah.

That’s very true.

I also think Laynie is a version of Andie:

Laynie dealt with mental health issues after Colin, her brother died just like Andie’s mental health declined after her brother died. Both characters had bad relationships with their parents.

TL22 · 10-03-2021, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilpensports (View Post)

That’s very true.

I also think Laynie is a version of Andie:

Laynie dealt with mental health issues after Colin, her brother died just like Andie’s mental health declined after her brother died. Both characters had bad relationships with their parents.

Laynie is a good example of a character like Andie. It's a shame that Nora Zehtner either quit or was let go. I'm curious to what happened.

**jediwands** · 10-03-2021, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TL22 (View Post)

Laynie is a good example of a character like Andie. It's a shame that Nora Zehtner either quit or was let go. I'm curious to what happened.

Excellent point, Tony.

It’s a question so many Everwood fans wondered and still wonder.

We just don’t know. Back then the media wasn’t on top of this information like it is now. So we don’t know if Nora wanted to leave or was let go. We do know that Emily and Nora were very friendly. Nora got along with everyone. Zero tension on the set. The cast got along beautifully. So as far as we know, nothing behind the scenes transpired in a negative way.

Which leaves Nora wanting to leave or Berlanti making a creative decision. Now we know the Hart’s (parents) were removed essentially after Colin’s death slowly but surely in addition to Laynie eventually too. Mrs. Hart was played by the wife of Tom Amandes, Nancy Everhard. Berlanti wrote off her character and she was the wife of Tom Amandes. So this might indicate it was a creative decision to most likely get rid of any familial connection to Colin. Maybe he thought it would lessen or affect the love story of Ephram and Amy? I am not sure but most people think it’s possible Laynie was written out along with the parents because the Colin Hart story concluded.

TL22 · 10-09-2021, 01:09 AM

The official reason for letting Meredith Monroe go, was lack of story lines. You'd have to be pretty dumb to believe that is the truth.

From what I have heard she was popular on set. Always in a good mood, on time, and knew her lines.

I think the network was behind her release, I'm not the only one who believes this. Meredith was getting very popular in spite of the crappy story lines they wrote for her. She was getting commercials, magazine covers etc.

The network was propping up Katie Holmes, trying to make her the next it girl. Meredith is a much better actress and in my opinion better looking. So MEREDITH was a threat to Katie and had to go.

If the network could have gotten rid of Michelle Williams, they would have. Michelle unlike Meredith had a ironclad contract. The network execs hated Michelle.

In Nora Zehtner's case there plenty of story lines. I suspect they wanted to add new characters and asked her if she would be agreeable to be written out of the show, plus she was a recurring character, not a regular. So Nora's case there was most likely no animosity.

In Meredith's case, she was highly pissed off, but to her credit she never came out publicly and knocked the show or network. Her frame of mind came from 3rde parties who were there.

At Dawson's Creek one hundred episode party Joshua Jack wore a picture of Meredith Monroe over his heart

Sasha Alexander in an interview stated the only time she ever saw Joshua Jackson angry and upset was Meredith's last day on set.

**jediwands** · 10-09-2021, 07:12 AM

The network was involved. Plus for Josh to wear that picture was telling too. There was anger and animosity and yes it seems the IT girl had something to do with the network’s decision.

Definitely nothing of the sort was taking place on Everwood. Pretty convinced based on years of research and what others in the know have said it was a creative choice, one that Nora most likely was aware of from the start, just like Tom’s wife who played Laynie’s mother.

What blows me away about the joke of a Dawson’s Creek series finale is Kevin did get Meredith to return only to not air the Andie/PA scenes. That part pisses me off more than anything.

COOLCAT200 · 10-09-2021, 08:18 AM

Lol they got an ending from “chaos” https://www.billboard.com/articles/c...tory-interview

**jediwands** · 10-09-2021, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COOLCAT200 (View Post)

Lol they got an ending from “chaos” https://www.billboard.com/articles/c...tory-interview

I love the interviewer saying it was assumed the ending was planned out in advance. LOL. It was a subtle dig to what actually happened and StupiD (the way I write his name) clearly seemed defensive not just with this answer, but multiple answers. How pathetic that the big theme of the series finale was who Joey was going to end up with. Was that the premise and vision this show first started out having? I don't think so. The show turned into a soap opera joke in the end with zero continuity.

TL22 · 10-09-2021, 08:04 PM

A good post from the anti P/J thread on the Dawson Creek forum by Crystal Clear.

Quote:

I haven't been here in a long time and I suddenly felt the need to ramble, so bear with me.
Okay, so the thing I find most entertaining about the P/J ship is the amount of people who say "they were never happier than when they were together" Um, did we watch completely different shows?

Pacey was MISERABLE in season 4. In fact, he was miserable in season 3 too when he thought his feelings for Joey would never be returned but even when he got the girl, he acted constantly paranoid and fearful every time that Joey would spend any amount of time with Dawson. The entire relationship was a constant effort for him, and Joey's job was to constantly reassure him "it's you I love now, not Dawson." I don't see how the public found this entertaining? Unless they secretly hated Pacey and wanted him to suffer. They made him look dumb enough to think that a romantic summer on a boat with Joey would be the answer to all their problems and everything would be right as rain when they return -- at the same time, he is ashamed of himself and hiding the truth from her. He is failing in school, and he doesn't feel comfortable telling his girlfriend this... The same person who he has grown up with. The fact that he believes she would pity or be ashamed of him doesn't exactly put a good spin on their relationship.

Then of course there's always Promicide. The episode where shippers tell us "Pacey was out of character when he said those nasty things" but he really, truly wasn't. He was voicing exactly what he had wanted to say for months.

Oh and Four Stories of course. Joey has just lost her virginity to Pacey and all he can basically say is, "on a scale of 1-10, how was I? Did you orgasm? Why won't you touch me anymore?" I honestly found this line of questioning rather perverse, and you can see that Joey is very uncomfortable. So much so that she flat-out lies to Dawson and pretends she and Pacey did not sleep together. Let's be real - if Joey had true, adult feelings for Pacey and was completely over Dawson by this point, then she wouldn't feel the need to lie. She would want Dawson to know the truth, so that he could FINALLY move on. But nope, the truth is that Joey wanted to have her cake and eat it too. She claims to have moved on with Pacey, yet she instantly shows jealousy when seeing Dawson kiss Gretchen and seems determined to torment Dawson by refusing to give him the space he deserves. I think there's a side of Joey that really enjoyed having Dawson and Pacey's worlds both revolve around her.

Furthermore, there's the whole soulmate connection between Dawson and Joey that Pacey could never accept. He makes it clear in season 3 when they're doing karaoke - he can't compete with the history of D/J. He can't handle not being loved like she loves Dawson. So I really don't get why he spent so much time and effort into naming his boat after her, pining for her, and practically begging her to kiss him back in the first place if he knows already that he's never going to be number one in her heart.

Is it not incredibly strange that the supposed "most popular" couple in Dawson's Creek is part of a trio where their best friend is both her ex-lover and her all-time soulmate? Soulmates are forever. They also don't just apply to friendships; remember Chandler and Janice in Friends? Their relationship was only ever 3 things: 1) lovers, 2) one night stands 3) nothing at all. They were never friends. So the argument put forward in the series finale that soulmates = friendship only is a total LIE.

That said, I do recall that season 4 was originally supposed to be the wrap-up season and it explains a lot about how P/J had completely broken down by the Senior Prom. That was the writers letting us know that things were going to come full-circle and she would find her way back to Dawson *cough* Coda *cough* ... We even have Andie return in time to congratulate Pacey on his graduation approval. There is a distinct return to the past, and that is NOT a coincidence. It is solid proof that even the writers recognized the longing in Pacey and Joey for things to be as they used to be.

**jediwands** · 10-10-2021, 07:33 AM

^ That is good.

COOLCAT200 · 10-10-2021, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)

I love the interviewer saying it was assumed the ending was planned out in advance. LOL. It was a subtle dig to what actually happened and StupiD (the way I write his name) clearly seemed defensive not just with this answer, but multiple answers. How pathetic that the big theme of the series finale was who Joey was going to end up with. Was that the premise and vision this show first started out having? I don't think so. The show turned into a soap opera joke in the end with zero continuity.

He knows full well they were operating on the assumption it was going to end with D/J

**jediwands** · 10-10-2021, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COOLCAT200 (View Post)

He knows full well they were operating on the assumption it was going to end with D/J

EXACTLY, he does. It’s so ridiculous he denies it.

***Jerry D*** · 10-19-2021, 07:23 PM

I recently bought the DVD of the show Fosse/Verdon: The Complete First Season, with Michelle Williams, and I can't wait to watch it. She's so talented.

I also read tonight that she's going to be in a biopic about the singer Peggy Lee, who was a very accomplished singer and songwriter with a very long career. I thought that she was a wonderful singer, and my father really liked her.

I love that the actress who the producers of Dawson's Creek treated so shabbily has gone on to become an award winning actress with a very successful career while the actress they treated like she walked on water is nothing but tabloid fodder now.

**jediwands** · 10-19-2021, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)

I recently bought the DVD of the show Fosse/Verdon: The Complete First Season, with Michelle Williams, and I can't wait to watch it. She's so talented.

I also read tonight that she's going to be in a biopic about the singer Peggy Lee, who was a very accomplished singer and songwriter with a very long career. I thought that she was a wonderful singer, and my father really liked her.

I love that the actress who the producers of Dawson's Creek treated so shabbily has gone on to become an award winning actress with a very successful career while the actress they treated like she walked on water is nothing but tabloid fodder now.

So true, Jerry. Dawson's Creek cannot even have a revival because the only actor who went on and made it super big (by big, I mean, critically acclaimed, award-winning actress) was Michelle and the stupid writers of Dawson's Creek killed off her character. I think it says everything about the total disaster known as this series being reminded of this bizarre reality. The writers, showrunners had no idea what they were doing. They only worked with little Katie hearts in front of their eyes even if it meant destroying the series and their upcoming career projects too.

***Jerry D*** · 10-20-2021, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)

So true, Jerry. Dawson's Creek cannot even have a revival because the only actor who went on and made it super big (by big, I mean, critically acclaimed, award-winning actress) was Michelle and the stupid writers of Dawson's Creek killed off her character. I think it says everything about the total disaster known as this series being reminded of this bizarre reality. The writers, showrunners had no idea what they were doing. They only worked with little Katie hearts in front of their eyes even if it meant destroying the series and their upcoming career projects too.

I also love the fact that Paul Stupin, who basically destroyed the show after Kevin Williamson left, hasn't been the executive producer of a show in over 4 years now, and Kevin Williamson hasn't been doing anything lately either, except that he'll be doing another Scream movie. It's poetic justice.

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Everwood > Everwood Fans who are Dawson/Joey & Pacey/Andie Fans of Dawson's Creek #32: Writer's Advice to Williamson : Don't start what you can't finish.