jediwands

I'm with Betty, I'm very interested in your take on how Colin and Ephram have more in common than Bright and Ephram. You very well could be right here.

Totally normal. I have a few childhood friends I still keep in touch with and we would literally take bullets for each other. Those childhood bonds are strong if you maintain them.

I think there's also a possibility that Colin would want out of the relationship with Amy as well. Many assume Amy would as she would end up with Ephram but I bet Colin would, too, once he was more himself. He wanted to break up with her before the accident. If those feelings came back, or in general, if he just realized he wanted to move on, I could see that happening. Amy/Colin could have even broken up in a rather peaceful, friendly way.

Jerry D

The thing is though is that we don’t know who the “real” Colin was. He practically had no memory when he first came out of his coma, and when he started to get his memory back, he began to react violently because his first operation wasn’t completely successful, and he ended up having to have a second operation that he didn’t survive. From what I personally saw of Colin, he started out as a nice guy, but he increasingly became an arrogant jerk, but that may have been due to the medical issues he was having, but I had the impression that pre-accident Colin was a jerk who was ready to dump Amy, so I don’t think he would have become friends with Ephram even if Amy wasn’t in the picture.

jediwands

100% agree with you, Jerry. You are right, we didn't truly know the real Colin for sure. The moment I felt we got the best glimpse of the real Colin was the fight he had with Amy before he left with Bright and got into the accident. That moment always rubbed me the wrong way and not just because I felt he was insensitive to Amy. There was something about him that made me think he was a jerk or very much could be a jerk. He knew Amy was upset there and didn't care. We also learned from Laynie the very reason why he didn't give a s$it was due to the fact that he was breaking up with Amy.

So yes, my impression was just like yours. You are right, I also cannot see how he and Ephram would have become friends in thinking about it. I don't think Ephram would have been remotely attracted to him in a friendship way. I am not sure how Colin would have felt about Ephram but for me, I feel like Ephram wouldn't have been very interested in pursuing a friendship with Colin.

Jerry D

I agree Michelle. Another thing that made me feel that pre-accident Colin was a jerk was when Bright confronted Ephram at school before Ephram convinced his father to operate on Colin and he said “If Colin was here, he’d kick your ass.” So that led me to believe that Colin was a mean bully just like Bright was before his accident.

secretk

I agree that we don't know the whole story around Colin, but I have another impression.

Colin was the guy that allowed Amy to kick him in the nuts (sorry just the way she told that story was hilarious). Now I think that he genuinely liked her otherwise he wouldn't react this way. It also shows that just like with Ephram, in this case Colin was the first to realize that likes the other one (in the case Amy) and to do something about it. And most boys would be pissed if some girl kicks them there btw.

The second thing I will always remember is this story about the trip where Amy missed the bus and Colin waited with her. Say what you want, but that was super sweet - the way he decided to stay besides her, to protect her and be sure that she will be all right. I don't think that jerk or jackass would do this. I see some responsible/sensitive guy like Ephram doing this.

Lastly we know that Amy and Colin didn't have sex. Now Colin was 2 years older than Amy (and he was Bright's age) and unlike his best friend he obviously didn't have the urge to have sex no matter what. He obviously respected Amy. Yes that might be the reason why he wanted to break up, but at least he was planning to not cheat on her and be honest with her. Just to mention something here - the fact that he didn't tell her doesn't make him bad guy in my eyes. Colin and Amy have been childhood friends just like Bright/Colin. Obviously he respected her enough and wanted to be sure that he wants to break up and obviously he waited for the right moment which is well very honorable. So this makes him actually good guy for me. Far more jackass move is to break up with her when she tells him that she loves him. At least for me it would be.

Jerry I saw this Bright's comment not like you saw it. Bright's bark was more dangerous than his bite. Bright wanted to intimidate Ephram and thought that by bringing you know his best friend (who had been always for him and who is in coma because of him) Ephram would back off. For me that was more like Bright desperately wanting his friend to be awake, fine and with him to be with Amy.

jediwands

Great catch, Jerry! That is right, Bright totally said that and the impression it gave was portraying two cocky bullies so arrogant that they felt like they could almost walk on water. Regular guys don't talk like that, not in a serious way which is right where Bright was going.

Koni, good post. I actually believe that Colin did once like Amy romantically quite a bit. They had a childhood crush going on that felt like a first love type of thing but in my mind, was bigger than it actually was. Just based on their arguing, it appeared to me that the relationship had run it's course, or that was the impression I got. Sort of like Colin knew it was over, but Amy wasn't getting it almost. I don't think he didn't care about her in a mean, spiteful way. I just believe he knew their relationship was done and was finding a way to tell her as much. The signs were there, Amy wasn't getting it yet.

I really would love to know why Colin was going to break up with her, that would have been great information to have. I guess we'll never truly know if it's what I think or another reason was in play.

I do know that the flash back where Amy, Bright and Colin were hanging out was a sweet scene. I do believe all three of them had a special childhood trio dynamic that was certainly based on caring. I just think romantically Colin and Amy were not meant to work out which is proof based on Colin wanting to break up with her and even Amy gravitating so quickly to Ephram.

Taryn74

Wow, really? I'm now beginning to wonder about the caliber of the guys I know because I could totally see just about any guy I know saying that, especially if someone was trying to make moves on their girlfriend or their friend's girlfriend. In fact, it was such a "normal" comment to me, that it didn't even register as anything to stand out one way or another about Bright or Colin's personality.

What's the reason you thinK? Just curious. I really think Amy's intensity was probably too much for Colin to handle and he was probably getting tired of having to be in SUCH a serious, intense relationship at his age.

secretk

Taryn I agree fully with your post! Of course Bright would say this, after all Ephram was going for his best friend's girlfriend. In fact I would be surprised if Bright hadn't reacted this way. Best friends have each others' back. If Bright was bully he wouldn't warn Ephram, he would just kick his ass. That's how the arrogant bullies act.

And you know I've never wondered before why Colin wanted to break up with Amy, but Taryn's reason sounds plausible. Amy really was intense for this age. I could say honestly that it would be too much for me at this age. I do like to watch love stories, but I'm not one of those that could be this intense at this age. So Colin might have felt the same way.

However my comment about friendship between Ephram and Colin has to do with Colin after the accident. No matter who Colin was before the accident, that Colin was gone the moment Colin was in a coma. There are researches that show that personality traits and character is determined by chemical reactions in the brain. Usually it's something that we are born with and yes experiences might shape us somehow, we might polish it a bit, but there are certain things that we have from the get go. However brain damages and brain injuries could change this personality because during such situations some chemical processes in the brain are broken and new ones should be made and there is no way that they will be like the ones before.

That's why in most cases people with such severe injury are never the same. When he woke up Colin wasn't the guy he was before the accident. He wasn't popular, he wasn't cocky. Yes he attacked Ephram, but not because he was cocky - he was scared and some people get violent when they are scared (twisted defensive mechanism I know ). Colin didn't want to be popular, he didn't seek it even more. Just watch it - the first time he goes to school he reaches out for Ephram and Ephram really did want to help him and I think that if there was no Amy (and no betrayal for Colin, because quite frankly that's how he felt - betrayed and lied from Amy and Ephram) they would continue to bond and get close. In fact they might have become even better friends than Bright and Ephram, because at that moment Ephram and Colin got each other, they just understood each other.

everwoodfan52

The bottom line here is that none of us know for sure what Colin and Bright were like before the accident. We can only speculate and the way we see things and draw conclusions is related to how we feel about the character. Those who liked Colin will give the benefit of the doubt to some of his questional behavior and those of us who didn't care for him see his actions as obnoxious and draw the conclusion that he was a prick before his accident as well.
It's just looking at the situation from a different point of view. It's what makes this board interesting.

secretk

I agree with you, we all saw things different, but we have no proof what's right and wrong.

I still think that what Amy and Ephram did caused him being angry. Anyone in his position would be angry or I would be if I've been lied and manipulated like that. I won't beat up a girl (if I was in Colin's position but reversed), but damn I won't be fan of this girl and I will definitely not respect her, nor treat her well. She would get it from me but with words. And a lot of people think that Colin was a jerk .

However it's all speculations - just like it's speculation that Colin and Amy didn't love each other or Amy didn't love him like she loved Ephram. I didn't see evidence for this too. I don't know what their relationship was. I saw people who had some problems, but Ephram and Amy had problems in the end of Season 3 too, so one isolated case doesn't help us much.

Overall we don't know enough about their past, so we could only play around and come to some conclusions, but not enough certainty. Still it's interesting for me to play around .

Taryn74

His violent behavior could also actually have been seizure activity. I know several families with children who regularly have seizures, and sometimes what looks like a meltdown or violent outburst is actually the child having a seizure. Since Colin was progressively getting worse, he could have been having seizures and not realized it since it wasn't a "typical" seizure. *shrugs*

Yep.

jediwands

Yes, I was never around that type of talk or behavior at all and I was an athlete and hung around athletic, popular guys too. Who knows? It could be a culture thing. Midwestern guys are rather reserved in my experience. I laugh at the depiction of all popular jocks being cocky and loud. It was never my experience and I was directly involved in this group! Could be a culture within a culture thing, could be I was lucky and just didn't have those types of male athletes around me, or I didn't hear that kind of stuff go on. All I can say is the male friends I had did not remotely act like Colin or Bright in season 1 and I find myself very lucky for this fact. LOL Matter of fact, one of my very best guy friends was the point guard on the varsity team. His girlfriend he had been with for six years and they had plans of marriage had been cheating on him for one year with another guy. He cried in my arms one night over this and never spoke to her again. Then he tried to date me and I said no so that created some awkwardness but we worked that out. LOL

All I can say is when I viewed Colin and Bright in season 1 the first thing I kept thinking about was how they were not the type that I had for friends and I was in that same group. I would probably laugh my a$$ off hearing one of my guy friends tell another guy his best guy was going to kick his a$$ in, that seems so silly to me. I thought Bright was stereotyped in a huge way but again, that is just based on my experience.

I'm 100% with Jerry that this was arrogant bullying.

I think that largely played a part in it. I also think he just realized they were not the fantasy Amy was creating in her mind that they were. I think Colin was the down to earth one here, he was realistic, while Amy was off in LALA Land blowing them up to be this unrealistic pairing that was never the reality.

jediwands

There is hardly any between from what I've seen over the years on this board and others. Either you liked Colin or hated him. I think Berlanti deliberately went that route, too. He didn't want to write him in definitive way which is why we never found out about why he was breaking up with Amy or not drawing the line perfectly for us to see the real Colin in behavior, where his illness started and his real personality took over. He made Colin fairly gray and I really do think that was intentional. He had two huge points for Colin... his death and the guy that essentially brought Ephram/Amy together indirectly. I just think Berlanti gave us enough of Colin for us to wonder about many aspects, love many aspects, hate many aspects. He wanted those of us who hated him to wonder why we hated a guy that had such a horribly devastating situation that ended his life, for example. That is the beauty of Berlanti. His ability to write, create and make the fans think and feel so much.

everwoodfan52

This was a great thread back in the day, and we thought it was a good idea to bump it up.

Please read through the posts and see if there's anything you'd like to add.....

jediwands

Well if people would have responded to my last two posts so
I didn't seem like a thread killer maybe the thread would still be active?

Thanks for bumping and opening again! Great thread, let's get it rolling again.