Butterfly85

^^^lol Good luck with this battle with the S4 episodes. 14 years later and some or fixated on Pacey and Joey having arguments (like ALL COUPLES have, including every couple on DC. Amazes me that when D/J were a couple they fought all the time in S2, S5, and S6. Dawson would always lash out and say cruel things to get back at Joey for hurting his feelings whether it was to find herself, dumping him for a "gay guy," accusing Joey of getting with Pacey just to sleep with him, etc. Pacey never talked to Joey like that, Dawson made at an art to be mean to Joey and put her down if he ego was bruised) like all couples don't have them or the other DC couples didn't have them. I also love how the facts are ignored of Pacey and Joey always talking out thier problems and issues by the end of the episode and it made them strong and more united as a couple (which happened in this episode, the first one, and all the others in S4. Even after their only bad arguement in Promicide, they made up and healed in a mature, realistic way in "Seperation Anxiety.") It was Dawson and Joey that always left things unresolved and it festered into a big ball of mold whenever they were together. That along with them avoiding each other and the problem resulting in a big blow up cause of miscommunacation was THEIR problem as a couple. Not Pacey and Joey's.

I know what I say will be for naught cause some are more comfortable saying all they did was fight over Dawson and never resolved their problems when they did every single time they did have a disagreement (which wasn't all the time like some love to say) so that's why most of the time I just don't care when these facts are continually ignored, if you watch the show you see they don't fight all the time and when they did, they talked it out and came out stronger. That's usually what couples do, and I found it very mature of them. I also agree, I also love how it's ignored that Pacey has ALWAYS had insecurities about school and whether he is good enough, if he will succeed in life since S1. He had these insecurities way before he got with Joey, and in S4 when he thought he was holding her back he told her to leave him behind and Joey refused to do that cause she loved him so much. In SA she was hoping that guy was giving Pacey an offer to the college she was going to and was crushed when it was about a job. She wanted them to get another chance and was devestated. In this very episode Pacey told Joey the truth and told her his fears and Joey said it would be okay and she's not going anywhere without him. I love how vulnerable he was in this scene and again, it strengthened their relationship. I also agree, Pacey wasn't the only one that had insecurities or quirks. Besides selfishness, Dawson had the creepy quirk of always questioning if Joey had sex with someone else (first Jack then Pacey) like her virginity was his property. That's never harped on, or Jen's issues with her past. All this will be ignored as usual but those are the facts, and people just have to watch the episodes to see for themselves

ChristinaL80

I'm just going to say that I don't count that as a big fight between Pacey and Joey. They made up in the next scene, which was a very honest talk about their relationship. One of my favorite scenes of S4.

Butterfly85

Your right, my point is that the few times they did fight they talked about it and made up. I'm just sick of the lies about that in S4 and people overblowing them having a few arguements when every couple on DC (and in real life) has argued before. Some people acted like Pacey was smacking her around, GMAB

ChristinaL80

I totally agree, Pacey and Joey didn't have big fights every episode. They were arguments or conflicts that were resolved at their end, sometimes in their very next scene together. And it didn't happen in every episode.

I wouldn't call them lies, though. People have different perceptions and see what they see or want to see. And we all remember things differently based on what we like or don't like. It happens in every fandom. That's why we have discussions and debates.

JJH85

That's true about the POVs. Just watch The Affair (which has Josh Jackson in it BTW), it shows how different one person's point of view can be from someone else's. After watching The Affair, it made me realize that we have to be sensitive to the fact that we are all going to perceive things differently and I think that is exactly how it works here as well between Dawson and Pacey fans or PJo/DJo fans.

As long as we recognize that in each other, we won't get so annoyed, hopefully

I really enjoyed watching Pacey and Joey in the opening scene when they are headed off to school as a couple and their banter. I always loved their banter, even when they weren't a couple.

And I loved how Joey didn't care who saw them making out outside the classroom. She muckled right onto Pacey in that scene, it was cute.

ChristinaL80

Good example using The Affair.

Yeah, I loved how Joey didn't have a problem with PDA despite what she said.

JJH85

Yeah, she's really into that kiss.

the_oc74

I love the opening scene of this episode from the holding of hands and that passionate kiss by the classroom (with Dawson needing to squeeze by).

The original song (Superman by Five for Fighting) makes the last scene with Pacey and Joey so good. Its a shame it was replaced on the DVD and syndication.

Butterfly85

I hate the DVD replacement music (just like in the 4x1 "This Year's Love" being replaced) I watched it when it was on WB so I prefer the original music. Like when we had the music survivor, people kept voting off the original music and it just hurt my soul. Much better than the replacement music.

the_oc74

That is a shame. I wish I was around when music survivor was going on! So many key scenes throughout the show's history were enhanced by great song selection. I wish the DC music site was still up to compare the original to the replacement song.

Alexa

repeat and ongoing are the same thing.

DJ fought a lot too, I am not denying that, but it didnt feel like it was AS often as PJ thus far. But we'll see.

Maybe real life couples fight, but tv couples shouldn't fight every single episode. That's not a rootable couple to me.

I never said "big" fight. And argument counts too imo.

He sort of was in that episode though Ordering her to leave the party?


Dude, its like there are so many freaking PJ fans on the board and one person comes in that doesnt like them and suddenly I am the most evil person to exist that is making up "lies".... its just so ridiculous. Let someone have a different opinion for Christ sake.

Forwood4Bamon

yes another fight about dawson, not resolving anything is what I view.

ChristinaL80

Everyone's opinion is welcome here. Please let's not take a discussion about a show personally. I know people still have strong opinions about PJ/DJ, but it's just a discussion with many differing views.


I think just the opposite about couples. TV couples fight more than real couples. There has to be drama and story for TV couples or they become boring and fade into the background. A show about relationships like DC has to have couples fight and have conflict. If a couple stays happy for too long, there's no show. And I don't think PJ fought in every single episode and DJ fans can probably argue the same thing about DJ

Pacey was wrong for not asking Joey to leave. I just don't see the argument as that bad. It wasn't near the level of smacking her around, imo. Joey told him off and did not stand for his behavior, but she was also wrong for keeping some stuff from Pacey. He knew that she wasn't being entirely truthful to him.

And of course, the argument was about Dawson. It was the start of the new season and Dawson was obviously going to be a conflict between PJ. Dawson is the title character and significant to both Pacey and Joey. But the deeper issues with them were Pacey's insecurities about not being good enough and Joey's fears about growing up. Dawson symbolized those issues.

Alexa

I just dont like being called a liar in every single thread that I make one critical comment about PJ....

I think its great for a couple to have conflict, but fighting every episode, hell no. That's not something I want to see. Once in a while is totally fine, if its a realistic fight and not about a third party person.

Forwood4Bamon

and that dawson tells joey pacey is failing. Why did he know first?